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BSOD when booting a cold system, but not when it's warm?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
New information: My rig sits on the floor in a basement, and the air at the floor is usually not much more than 65-70°F! So, I think that I'm beginning to see here that maybe it's caused by the capacitors being a little too cold. Well, maybe.


This is in regards to my sig rig, and it's completely up-to-date.

During some of the cold boots I do on occasion, I'll get a BSOD during the early part of Windows 7's start-up (before it has a chance to form the logo). But I need to stress here that it only occurs during some of the cold boots I've done, not all of them (where the computer is as cold as a rock). I mean, I'll sometimes turn the computer off for several hours for one reason or another, and it has gotten to the point now where when I turn the computer back on that first time, I sit there half-expecting a BSOD. Like, I'm almost surprised if I don't get one - but I also sometimes forget that it might happen. So that's what I meant by saying that it doesn't happen during every physically-cold boot.

Now, I can reboot a thousand times in one day and never get a BSOD. But if I shut down and let the system become as cold as a rock and start it up after that, then I have what seems to be like a 50% chance of getting a BSOD almost as soon as Windows 7 begins loading.

So, is this common? Or should I try adjusting something in the BIOS? If I need to adjust something in the BIOS, then what should I try first?

Just in case, here are my current MIT settings:

Code:
CPU = E8400 E0
VID = 1.2500V
Motherboard = EP45-UD3P (Rev. 1.6)
BIOS Version = FFb
Ram = G.SKILL F2-9600CL5D-4GBPI


MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster .............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio .....................: 9X
Fine CPU Clock Ratio.................: -
CPU Frequency .......................: 4.05 GHz


Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control...............: Enabled
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 450
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .........: 100 (set manually)


Advanced Clock Control
CPU Clock Drive......................: 800mV
PCI Express Clock Drive..............: 900mV
CPU Clock Skew.......................: 0ps
MCH Clock Skew.......................: 0ps


DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance..................: Standard
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)......: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: Auto
System Memory Multiplier ............: 2.66D
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 1200
DRAM Timing Selectable ..............: Manual



Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.....................: 5
tRCD ................................: 5
tRP..................................: 5
tRAS.................................: 15

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD.................................: 3
tWTR.................................: 3
tWR..................................: 6
tRFC.................................: 54
tRTP.................................: 3
Command Rate (CMD) ..................: Auto


Channel A
Static tRead Value...................: 10
Channel B
Static tRead Value...................: 10



Motherboard Voltage Control

CPU
Load Line Calibration (LLC) .........: Disabled
CPU Vcore............................: 1.35000
CPU Termination.....1.200V*..........: 1.280
CPU PLL.............1.500V*..........: 1.590
CPU Referen.........0.760V*..........: Auto

MCH/ICH
MCH Core............1.100V...........: 1.280
MCH Reference.......0.800V...........: 0.720 (so, it's actually 0.770)
MCH/DRAM Ref........0.900V...........: Auto
ICH I/O.............1.500V...........: 1.500
ICH Core............1.100V...........: 1.100

DRAM
DRAM Voltage .........1.800V.........: 2.120 (2.100V in Hardware Monitor)
DRAM Termination .....0.900V.........: Auto
Channel A Reference ..0.900V.........: Auto
Channel B Reference ..0.900V.........: Auto
Unfortunately, I don't know which BSOD code I am getting. But it never mentions a driver or anything like that. Based on the codes I've seen, I am actually suspecting the memory, but I lack the experience here to really know. I mean, I remember that I usually see more than one code which I think might be those memory addresses or something. I don't know.

Worse yet, it's very difficult to make it BSOD.

But again, is this common? Or should I try adjusting something in the BIOS? If I need to adjust something in the BIOS, then what should I try first?
Edited by TwoCables - 1/14/11 at 8:32pm
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post #2 of 22
I am going to go out on a limb and say you processor is very slowly degrading and requiring more vcore, but its on the boarder so its ok most of the time. IDK it could be RAM but you would get BDOS more often.
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post #3 of 22
Ya know, this same thing happened to my old Q6700+780i build (cpu and gpus were on water though). If it was cold and off, it'd hang randomly in the POST and i'd keep hitting reset until something warmed up and it booted like normal.

It's almost like it had a cold bug at 15C . I'm curious if anyone knows why.
 
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post #4 of 22
My SB actually HAS a cold bug at 20C!!!!


most cold bugs that are not in the CPU are caused by old worn down capacitors, that are not able to hold a charge like they once used to, so once you turn the system on, they need to be charged up before they can discharge.
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post #5 of 22
I am having a similar issue.

With a cold boot, although it is not a BSOD, the windows logo hangs there for a long time (over a minute at least). I have no pending updates or nothing else that I think it should be doing. I have minimized the number of services running at startup, so I am not being dragged down by those.

If I warm boot, I get a very quick boot (SSD, etc).
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post #6 of 22
I'm guessing that your computer can't provide the sufficient voltage to the cpu when it's in a cold state due to it falling short of the thermal conductivity range? or whatever that range this was called again.
post #7 of 22
I just started suffering from this from a few days ago, nasty storm and huge lengthy power surges, I thought my rig was dead. I get the cold boot issue now as well. 1st thoughts was ram, would only post with one stick, and eventually after she "warmed up" it would start up with all 4 sticks. Shut it off for the night, would power up with no post, I let it run for a few minutes, hit the reset button, and off she would go like nothing happened. Sorry useless story.

My guesstimate, is the board not holding power properly, I say this because I had an old lcd tv, that I literally had to use a hair dryer on the back my the circuit board to heat up and get going. Damn, another useless story, but I feel it has some relevance to the cold boot issues being do to the board, at least in my cases =D
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post #8 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
My SB actually HAS a cold bug at 20C!!!!
That actually made me laugh out loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sin0822 View Post
most cold bugs that are not in the CPU are caused by old worn down capacitors, that are not able to hold a charge like they once used to, so once you turn the system on, they need to be charged up before they can discharge.
Ahh, that actually makes sense. Caps on the motherboard can't hold their charge when they get too cold... kind of like how a low AA battery won't work unless you rub it in your hands to warm it up. +rep
 
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post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Then perhaps I'm riding too close to the edge where if I use any less voltage for something, then there's instability. But voltage for what, I wouldn't know. hehe

Fortunately, this is the only problem I'm having and I practically never experience it because it's very rare that I have my system off for long enough for this to have a chance of happening. Well, except when I clean the interior which is about once a month or less now.

Anyway, CPU degradation is not possible because the maximum safe voltage for CPUs like the E8400 is 1.45V (which you may have seen mentioned here on OCN before). If you think that the maximum is 1.3625V, then I have to tell you that it's not. 1.3625V is just the maximum end of the VID Voltage Range. The VID Voltage Range is just the range of VIDs that the motherboard can choose when the vcore is set to Auto. But of course when it's set to manual, we can go beyond this range. But more than that, even if the motherboard were to choose 1.3625V, then the actual voltage running through the CPU would be lower than that. First there's vDrop which results in the idle voltage as seen in Windows, and then there's vDroop which results in the full-load voltage.

So if I were to draw a conclusion right now, then I might end up with two possible conclusions:
  • Something needs to be tweaked in the BIOS
  • This might be something I'll never be able to fix

Regardless, I am extremely grateful to everyone who has replied so far!
It's a computer!
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i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
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It's a computer!
(19 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500K @ 4.5GHz (1.368-1.384V fixed voltage) ASUS P8P67 EVO B3 (UEFI ver. 1850) GTX 780 ASUS DirectCU II (1228 / 6300, 1.180V) G.SKILL Ripjaws X 8GB (2 x 4GB) 1866MHz, CL9 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (C:\) 250 GB Samsung 840 EVO (D:\) 150 GB WD VelociRaptor Samsung SH-S243N 24x DVD Burner 
Optical DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung SH-S203N 20X DVD Burner Thermaltake Frio Win 7 Home Premium x64 SP1 Retail AOC G2460PG (24" 1920 x 1080 144Hz G-SYNC) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Filco Majestouch 104-key Cherry MX Blues w/NKRO Corsair HX650 (Bronze, ordered on 12-12-2009) CM 690 Intellimouse Optical (1.1A) 1000Hz polling rate 
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post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberTechnician View Post
I'm guessing that your computer can't provide the sufficient voltage to the cpu when it's in a cold state due to it falling short of the thermal conductivity range? or whatever that range this was called again.
Normal processors love the cold and need less voltage for the same clocks at a colder temperature due to the fact that electrons slow down so that you are able to feed more of them in the form of current and voltage through a single transistor than you could at higher temperatures, because the electrons would move more freely and thus break through a transistor gate thus killing it at higher temperatures. Resistance also comes into plat, but the bottom line is that because of the electron band gap theory certain doped semi conductors like those used in YGBM(i think that is what it is) show super conductivity a few degrees above 0K. That is what you also see, in an odd twist the cold is very beneficial to the CPU. For Capacitors it is not, they actually perform best a little above room temp./

Why do you think all the world records are held under liquid nitrogen, what do you think they are cooling? their balls?

Two cables you also need to take into account amperage, as voltage is nothing but a signal without current. believe me you are exceeding TDC.
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X99 Main Rig
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Intel 5960X Extreme Edition @ 4.5GHz Always Changing VisonTek R9 290 G.Skill Ripjaws 4 16GB (4x4GB) DDR4 @ 3200MHz 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Samsung 128GB M.2 PCI-E 4x SSD Apotop 256GB SSD 1.82TB NAS Noctua NH-D15 with both fans 
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