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Just can't seem to get stable at 3.8GHz... (Phenom II X4 965BE)

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Well over the past couple days I haven't had much to do so I went back to learning overclocking and how far I can overclock my computer. But now after a few days I seem to be stuck.
Weather the CPU-NB is at 2000, 2200, 2400, 2600, or 2800MHz I can not get the CPU to reach 3.8GHz. Anywhere from 3.4GHz to 3.7GHz on the CPU and any CPU-NB speed from 2GHz to 2.8GHz it will be 100% stable passing multiple different stress test programs no problem, but once I try to get 3.8GHz and up on the CPU it just can't get stable no matter what voltage I set it to. I tested each CPU-NB overclock with the CPU at stock speed and after running testing for around 30minutes to an hour with Prime95 and LinX each time none had a single error so I know the CPU-NB is 100% stable.

CPU-NB
Speed - Voltage
2.2GHz - Stock
2.4GHz - Stock
2.6GHz - 1.212v
2.8GHz - 1.413v
3.0GHz - Stopped around 1.56v, would frequently randomly reboot.

CPU
Speed - Voltage
3.5GHz - Stock
3.6GHz - Stock
3.7GHz - Stock
3.8GHz - Lost track, but never went above ~1.48v

My only guess I have left is the temp is causing it to not be able to handle anymore? At 3.4GHz it maxes out at 58C and at 3.7GHz it maxes at 64C. I know 63C is the CPU's max rated temp but I'm used to CPU's working past their max design temp when having small/no voltage increase. Plus when trying to get it stable at 3.8GHz I rarely see SpeedFan go above 60C before getting a BSOD, it usually happens around 58C.

Stress test after 30minutes:
3.7GHz CPU - 2.8GHz CPU-NB
CPU: 64C
NB: 53C
SB: 43C
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post #2 of 15
Eh I'm OC'ing an X4 955 BE right now, is it possible that you can test prime95 in custom for large ftts?

I thought I was stable at 2.6 ghz NB freq at 1.275 volts until I started the prime95 large ftt test. I'm currently sitting at 1.35 v to get it to pass prime95 8+ hrs.

The IMC is on our chips raising the voltage increases the temp on the CPU so maybe try pulling back the CPU-NB voltage to control temps?

I'm finding on this chip BSOD are usually memory related issues (the IMC or the ram).

Gah I'm on my final stability test. Most of my stability issues occur at 8+ hrs in prime95 which stresses our IMC. I know I'm being anal but I don't want any chance of failure.

I had to pull my CPU multiplier and settle for a lower speed to keep my NB freq at 2.6 ghz (anal stable).

Good luck though.

Also what cooler are you using? Those temps slightly high for me but you might have a higher ambient temp than me.

I might be wrong but I thought if you didn't increase voltage temps shouldn't increase that much. Are you sure "stock" setting isn't auto settings? Its possible the mobo was auto regulating your voltage to keep you stable (which would explain the higher temps).
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post #3 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilferret;12015823 
Eh I'm OC'ing an X4 955 BE right now, is it possible that you can test prime95 in custom for large ftts?

I thought I was stable at 2.6 ghz NB freq at 1.275 volts until I started the prime95 large ftt test. I'm currently sitting at 1.35 v to get it to pass prime95 8+ hrs.

The IMC is on our chips raising the voltage increases the temp on the CPU so maybe try pulling back the CPU-NB voltage to control temps?

I'm finding on this chip BSOD are usually memory related issues (the IMC or the ram).

Gah I'm on my final stability test. Most of my stability issues occur at 8+ hrs in prime95 which stresses our IMC. I know I'm being anal but I don't want any chance of failure.

I had to pull my CPU multiplier and settle for a lower speed to keep my NB freq at 2.6 ghz (anal stable).

Good luck though.

Also what cooler are you using? Those temps slightly high for me but you might have a higher ambient temp than me.

I might be wrong but I thought if you didn't increase voltage temps shouldn't increase that much. Are you sure "stock" setting isn't auto settings? Its possible the mobo was auto regulating your voltage to keep you stable (which would explain the higher temps).

1.413v sadly is the lowest voltage I can use on the CPU-NB at 2.8GHz while being stable, and I'm not fully sure how to test which CPU-NB speed is the best with my CPU speed as I know some higher CPU-NB clocks can actually be slower, I assume some type of RAM speed benchmark program would be best? I guess I'm going to stick with 3.7GHz on the CPU unless I finally decide to spend money on a pricey hunk of metal that'll cool my CPU better. And I'm using stock cooling by the way, ambient temps are around 18 to 24C. And yes stock is "AUTO" in my BIOS, I just figured AUTO = stock, does it not?
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post #4 of 15
Lowering your NB clock might help. And what is your CPU multiplier set at? and bus speed?
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post #5 of 15
No, you must set voltages or your motherboard will try to compensate by controlling voltage for you.

You would have to check every component for their "stock" settings and input them yourself.

Some of the higher end motherboards are "decent" for OC'ing meaning they do help you key in voltages and are sometimes better than novice OC'ers.

If you decide to keep in auto the only way to check the "unstable" voltage is viewing right as it crashes. Thats why manual gives you more control. You know what voltage you have.


Remember the IMC (the CPU-NB) and the CPU are on the same chip.

You can still crash with decent temps since if you have IMC or ram issues.

Theres no real "benchmark" which is faster. Use the system and see which feels "faster" for you. Everybody's usage differs.

Also people may shoot me but I'm starting to like AMD's stock cooler. My hyper 212+ would bypass the airflow for proper motherboard cooling and my NB would have higher temps. Ended up with an extra case fan pointed at my NB for piece of mind.

My next system will go back to the downward air design.

Our IMC's don't handle over 2600 well without a huge jump in voltage. For me, 2600 is taking 1.35 stable (knock on wood, restarted prime95 and 2 hrs in) and 2800 took 1.45 which translated to almost 4-6 difference in temps under load.

For me OC'ing is all about efficiency. Theres a limit where the voltage/performance price isn't worth it. It wasn't worth it for 4-6 degrees (and I'm on a supposedly "good" cooler) for me.

But again my recommendation is pull your NB freq down to 2600 and figure out the max voltage to achieve full stability. This should lower your temps so you could OC your CPU a bit more. Than try to key in your CPU's lowest stable voltage.

Also for me unless you do the large FTT test NB freq can't be considered stable. I can push my NB freq to 2800 on 1.3 V and only fail in prime95 around the 8 hr mark. The higher the voltage the longer it takes.

Also you can have issues when your CPU speed is too high and your NB freq isn't high enough. I've found the opposite is true too, high NB freq's and low CPU speeds caused instability for me.

Also what would be the point? Its like giving a *insert crappy small car* on the autobahn by itself.


EDIT: Don't forget to manually set your RAM timings to stock settings so you can at least know its the actual RAM causing instability. Don't forget DRAM voltage.
Edited by evilferret - 1/14/11 at 10:12pm
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post #6 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilferret;12016337 
No, you must set voltages or your motherboard will try to compensate by controlling voltage for you.

You would have to check every component for their "stock" settings and input them yourself.

Some of the higher end motherboards are "decent" for OC'ing meaning they do help you key in voltages and are sometimes better than novice OC'ers.

If you decide to keep in auto the only way to check the "unstable" voltage is viewing right as it crashes. Thats why manual gives you more control. You know what voltage you have.

Pull the NB-freq down. 2800 to 2600 is a slight difference which you can compensate by having tighter ram timings. Also as I mentioned, you not not be 100% stable. You need to run the large FTT test and stress the IMC and that takes awhile.

Remember the IMC (the CPU-NB) and the CPU are on the same chip.

You can still crash with decent temps since if you have IMC or ram issues.

Theres no real "benchmark" which is faster. Use the system and see which feels "faster" for you. Everybody's usage differs.

Also people may shoot me but I'm starting to like AMD's stock cooler. My hyper 212+ would bypass the airflow for proper motherboard cooling and my NB would have higher temps. Ended up with an extra case fan pointed at my NB for piece of mind.

My next system will go back to the downward air design.

Again pull your NB freq's. Our IMC's don't handle over 2600 well without a huge jump in voltage. For me, 2600 is taking 1.35 stable (knock on wood, restarted prime95 and 2 hrs in) and 2800 took 1.45 which translated to almost 4-6 difference in temps under load.

For me OC'ing is all about efficiency. Theres a limit where the voltage/performance price isn't worth it. It wasn't worth it for 4-6 degrees (and I'm on a supposedly "good" cooler) for me.

But again my recommendation is pull your NB freq down to 2600 and figure out the max voltage to achieve full stability. This should lower your temps so you could OC your CPU a bit more. Than try to key in your CPU's lowest stable voltage.

Also you can have issues when your CPU speed is too high and your NB freq isn't high enough. I've found the opposite is true too, high NB freq's and low CPU speeds caused instability for me.

Also what would be the point? Its like giving a *insert crappy small car* on the autobahn by itself.


EDIT: Don't forget to manually set your RAM timings to stock settings so you can at least know its not the actual RAM causing instability. Don't forget DRAM voltage.

I'm the same way with the whole efficient overclocking. Sure I'd love to have a 4GHz quad-core CPU to brag about to all my nerd friends but I'd much rather stay within decent voltages and temperatures so my computer will live longer than a year and I can have it in my garage 20years from now with my kids asking "Hey what's that big hunk of crap?" and I can be like "FU you know their was a day when we still had to sit in front of computers and tell them what to do and tell cars where to go. cigar.gif " ... while still learning how to overclock. xD

Anyways I am going to take a break on this for the night and head to bed then update tomorrow. Thanks for all the help.
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post #7 of 15
Lol don't worry and good luck tomorrow. I should be hitting the sack but I'm fascinated staring at prime95 right now.

Also go grab CPUID hardware. Not sure if its just my mobo but its been pretty good in detecting instability. If I see weird fluxes I just assume my OC is no good at this point.

It originally read all temps and sensors fine (aside one stuck/fake sensor which Gigabyte won't confirm) but after OC'ing found weird fluxes. Temps/voltages would change for a second and change back. Every OC setting showing this has shown issues in the 8+ hrs prime95.
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post #8 of 15
Once you pass about 56 degrees on the cpu, your oc will become unstable although I'm not sure the exact reason. I've found this out with air and water cooling. On air, I couldn't get my system stable to 4ghz due to the high temps (62 celcius). Now on the Coolit ALC cooler, I can get to 4ghz easy and the temps stay around 55-56 under prime load. So just make sure you have a kickass cooler on there like a Silver Arrow or NH-D14 if you plan to air cool it.
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farmer Boe;12017111 
Once you pass about 56 degrees on the cpu, your oc will become unstable although I'm not sure the exact reason. I've found this out with air and water cooling. On air, I couldn't get my system stable to 4ghz due to the high temps (62 celcius). Now on the Coolit ALC cooler, I can get to 4ghz easy and the temps stay around 55-56 under prime load. So just make sure you have a kickass cooler on there like a Silver Arrow or NH-D14 if you plan to air cool it.

Well its possibly due to your CPU being a C2?

Guess I should have asked MikelKassner if he has a C2 or C3.

I've peaked to 60 temps and no throttling when I was trying to find my max voltages.

Currently peaking at 57 on load and no CPU throttling.

Also if benchmarks show a slower speed when you have a higher NB-freq its possible you're unstable (the system).

For me, if it doesn't feel any faster the OC is probably unstable somewhere.
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post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilferret;12023797 
Well its possibly due to your CPU being a C2?

Guess I should have asked MikelKassner if he has a C2 or C3.

I've peaked to 60 temps and no throttling when I was trying to find my max voltages.

Currently peaking at 57 on load and no CPU throttling.

Also if benchmarks show a slower speed when you have a higher NB-freq its possible you're unstable (the system).

For me, if it doesn't feel any faster the OC is probably unstable somewhere.

It's a C3, I've been messing with my case and cooling a bit, right now it's out of the case (still on the removable motherboard tray for safety) and cleaned it with my air compressor which I hadn't done in awhile, after disassembling the fan bracket on top of the CPU heatsink and looking over it while cleaning it I noticed to the left and right their are huge gaps where a lot of air could escape instead of flowing through the cooling fins. So I grabbed my hot glue gun and covered them up so the air can't go anywhere except the heatsink then booted back up and ran Prime95 for ~10minutes, temps still maxed out at 64C and idling it stays at 49-50C, then just for the heck of it I quickly unhooked the fan from the heatsink, flipped it over so it'd suck air out of the heatsink then ran Prime95 again keeping a close eye on temps being sure this would work worse, but to my surprise now temps are 49-50C idle 58C Prime95 after ~10minutes. Woohoo! Still crappy temps but it's an improvement.
Now to search the web for a good benchmarking program to tell me how much of a difference I'll get dropping the CPU-NB to 2.6GHz.
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