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Official Intel P67/Z68 Motherboard Comparison List & OC Results - Page 57

post #561 of 645
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brod;14810417 
Seems so. I just stumbled upon this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pci-express-scaling-p67-chipset-gaming-performance,2887-10.html

Wow, looks like nVidia can join Apple at the seat of evil.
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post #562 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track;14808743 
-There are no S1155 boards that support 2-way Quad-SLi/CF properly.
-There are no S1155 boards that support 2-way Quad-SLi natively, but Quad-CF should work fine driver-wise.
I may have not explained it properly.
There are 1155 mobos that are certified for Quad-SLI 2-way such as the ASRock Extreme4 and others. Some are also certified for 3-way SLI like the ASUS M4E. Nvidia charges mobo manufacturers to be certified in order to advertise SLI compatibility which can add a few dollars to the price of a board. Nvidia drivers require a NF200 on the motherboard to enable SLI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track;14808743 
Are you suggesting that motherboards that only support x16x4.. don't support SLi, only Crossfire?
The whole reason behind Nvidia requiring NF200 chips is to make sure there's at least x8 lane speed for each card. x4 does severely hurt performance and I wouldn't use it even if you could. Remember that you used to have to have a nForce chipset mobo back in the day to enable SLI? My X38 chipset system only works in CF because ATI/AMD doesn't limit you. Fortunately, there is a SLI hack for these older mobos which removes the driver limitation. In 1155 mobos though, the limitation is placed in the BIOS as well. So a simple driver hack won't allow you to enable 4-way SLI on a board that supports 4-way CF. Due to the total of 32 PCIe lanes on the P67/Z68 there won't be any mobos with 2 NF200 chips anyways; we'll have to wait for X79 or use the old X58 for that.

Nvidia is now allowing 3x SLI on the new AMD 990FX motherboards for the first time as well even though they don't have NF200 chips.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Track;14808743 
So, when it says "Dual (@ x4)", it applies only to AMD GPUs?
-some PCIe/SATA/USB lanes will be taken to compensate (if I understand this correctly).

Even if the mobo PCIe specs show "Dual (@ x4)", as long as the board says it supports SLI on the product specs, it will still be able to do SLI. AMD doesn't require any certification so whatever the mobo is physically capable of handling, AMD can do. Which is why, for example, the ASUS WS Revolution which supports 4-way CF, only supports 3-way SLI. The board only has one NF200 chip so 4-way SLI won't be possible unless the board adds an additional NF200 chip. You can still do Quad-SLI 2-way(590/295) on that specific board, even though it may not be certified, because it does have a NF200 chip on the mobo but users who have done so, reported having to move the keyboard/mouse USB ports to a specific controller and lost control of their sound card settings via software(the sound card was still usable though).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Track;14808743 
In the end, though, there is a 1-2fps difference between x16x16 and x8x8 (x4x4x4x4 per-GPU 590/6990), so why does it matter?
BW_Table.png

PCIe 2.0 x16 = 8GB/s total bandwidth
PCIe 2.0 x8 = 4GB/s total bandwidth
PCIe 3.0 x8 = PCIe 2.0 x16
On PCI-Express 3.0 8x, if you don't have a PCI-Express 3.0 card, it will switch to PCI-Express 2.0/2.1/2.2 x16 so x8x8x8x8 PCIe 3.0 is plenty for 4-Way SLI/CF.
Adding the NF200 costs $5 in licensing.
The problem with the NF200 is that it's only PCI Express 1.1 so it's slower than newer chipsets.
The NF200 bridge is a lane multiplexor but its not a substitute for a better Northbridge(X79 PCIe 3.0 which uses a different encoding scheme that removes the 20% overhead of 2.0's 8b/10b encoding).




This is the Tweaktown review of x16x16 using NF200 and x8x8 without.
The problem with this review is that two out of the three GPUs in this configuration are running at half the lane speed so in x8x8 they're running at x4x4 internally while the 3rd GPU is at x8.
nf200_x16_x16_vs_intel_x8_x8_p67_performance_analysis.png


[H] did a similar review:
Quote:
at 2560x1600, even with 4X AA, there was absolutely no difference between x16/x16 and x8/x8
having both video cards at x8 does somewhat impact performance at the higher 5760x1200
480sli%2016x%20vs%208x.gif

Edited by PoopaScoopa - 9/3/11 at 9:09pm
post #563 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;14814247 
Due to the total of 32 PCIe lanes on the P67/Z68 there won't be any mobos with 2 NF200 chips anyways; we'll have to wait for X79 or use the old X58 for that.

24 you mean? 16 lanes for GPU -> CPU connectivity and 8 from the PCH.
Edited by Brod - 9/5/11 at 12:37pm
post #564 of 645
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;14814247 
I may have not explained it properly.
There are 1155 mobos that are certified for Quad-SLI 2-way such as the ASRock Extreme4 and others. Some are also certified for 3-way SLI like the ASUS M4E. Nvidia charges mobo manufacturers to be certified in order to advertise SLI compatibility which can add a few dollars to the price of a board. Nvidia drivers require a NF200 on the motherboard to enable SLI.

So, how could the ASRock P67 Extreme4 support 2-way Quad-SLi with one NF200?

Is it because they've paid nVidia to allow them and them only to enable it on their boards, driver-wise, and that's why they they get to list it?

Or is it because they've built their board so that when two cards are installed they run at x16x16 instead of x8x8 like on every other P67 NF200 board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;14814247 
The whole reason behind Nvidia requiring NF200 chips is to make sure there's at least x8 lane speed for each card. x4 does severely hurt performance and I wouldn't use it even if you could. Remember that you used to have to have a nForce chipset mobo back in the day to enable SLI? My X38 chipset system only works in CF because ATI/AMD doesn't limit you. Fortunately, there is a SLI hack for these older mobos which removes the driver limitation. In 1155 mobos though, the limitation is placed in the BIOS as well. So a simple driver hack won't allow you to enable 4-way SLI on a board that supports 4-way CF. Due to the total of 32 PCIe lanes on the P67/Z68 there won't be any mobos with 2 NF200 chips anyways; we'll have to wait for X79 or use the old X58 for that.

Nvidia is now allowing 3x SLI on the new AMD 990FX motherboards for the first time as well even though they don't have NF200 chips.

Yeah, that's fine, and I agree that running a GTX 590 on x4 is a bad idea.

But GTX 560 SLi would run just fine on x4x4, with minimal performance losses.

So for nVidia to not allow one to use the second card, in trying to protect them from lowered performance, doesn't make sense.

Wouldn't it piss off the guy a lot more if he can't run the card at all?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;14814247 
Even if the mobo PCIe specs show "Dual (@ x4)", as long as the board says it supports SLI on the product specs, it will still be able to do SLI. AMD doesn't require any certification so whatever the mobo is physically capable of handling, AMD can do. Which is why, for example, the ASUS WS Revolution which supports 4-way CF, only supports 3-way SLI. The board only has one NF200 chip so 4-way SLI won't be possible unless the board adds an additional NF200 chip. You can still do Quad-SLI 2-way(590/295) on that specific board, even though it may not be certified, because it does have a NF200 chip on the mobo but users who have done so, reported having to move the keyboard/mouse USB ports to a specific controller and lost control of their sound card settings via software(the sound card was still usable though).

So, it's possible that a x16x4 board will support SLi?

Right, like I said, the onboard sound chip, several USB and some SATA ports will lose bandwidth as lanes will have to be sacrificed to allow the needed bandwidth on the PCIe slots.

But why, again, does that happen on the NF200 board?
If it ran x16x16 on GTX 590 Quad-SLi, I would understand, but x8x8, that's only half the lanes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa;14814247 
snip

So.. you did all that research and added those pics, just to say that you agree with me? tongue.gif

I think the TweakTown benchmark proves that even an HD 6990 doesn't require PCIe 2.0 x16.

So, all PCIe 3.0 will allow us is to run four HD 7970s x4x4x4x4.
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post #565 of 645
ASRock Z68 Extreme7 Gen3 board, according to Asrock specs supports dual PCIE 2.0 x16 (PCIE1) / PCIE 2.0 x16 (PCIE4) mode. It's listed in the spreadsheet as only the first slot x 16 mode
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post #566 of 645
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by merkle;14838702 
ASRock Z68 Extreme7 Gen3 board, according to Asrock specs supports dual PCIE 2.0 x16 (PCIE1) / PCIE 2.0 x16 (PCIE4) mode. It's listed in the spreadsheet as only the first slot x 16 mode

As far as I know, there are no x16x16 capable P67 or Z68 boards.
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post #567 of 645
I have to add that the gigabyte p67 and z68xp boards are different in a much more mentionable way then the video out. You get software for video virtualization with the z68xp. That was the only mistake that I made when I did my upgrade. I have the z68x and for 30 more I could have had the z68xp. The ability to use both gpus at the same time could be interesting if you want to watch a movie and still get the best gaming performance from your dedicated gpu.
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post #568 of 645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Track;14839169 
As far as I know, there are no x16x16 capable P67 or Z68 boards.
Doesn't the Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z allow 16x16x16 SLI or 16x16x8x8 SLI on their board? Correct me if I am wrong.
   
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post #569 of 645
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcharlesr75;14910876 
I have to add that the gigabyte p67 and z68xp boards are different in a much more mentionable way then the video out. You get software for video virtualization with the z68xp. That was the only mistake that I made when I did my upgrade. I have the z68x and for 30 more I could have had the z68xp. The ability to use both gpus at the same time could be interesting if you want to watch a movie and still get the best gaming performance from your dedicated gpu.

Software is not a motherboard related quality. It could be purchased or obtained post-purchase, and I don't really think it's significant.. so I don't see a reason to add it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asuperpower;14916259 
Doesn't the Asus Maximus IV Extreme-Z allow 16x16x16 SLI or 16x16x8x8 SLI on their board? Correct me if I am wrong.

NF200 P67/Z68 boards allow the ability to run x16/x16, but I believe the M4E runs at x16/x8/x8/x8.
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post #570 of 645
http://bit.ly/nr2GMV you can try this
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