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Psi?

post #1 of 10
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Alright first off I am a car guy with interests in custom computers etc etc. This income tax time I wanna build a new rig and do a water cooling setup, I know all the how to stuff but do water cooling setups have any PSI like a vehicles loop?

its a really weird question but I am curious, if my car has air bubbles in the cooling system I have little to non PSI (which will cause overheating) but with no air bubbles it reaches 11psi.
    
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post #2 of 10
mcp355 has a Maximum Pressure: 22 PSI for example
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post #3 of 10
I don't think system pressure is really something that is considered beyond the number of radiators/blocks you need to go through.

Of course laing have their dual pump sets, which run in series, that will near double the operating pressure of a loop compared to a single pump.

But so far as I know it's really only used for gauging a number of components that can be run on a single loop.

And since the water spends the same amount of time in the radiator whatever speed it is flowing at, so long as you have enough flowrate to achieve turbulent flow, I don't think it makes much of a difference.


(Ofc you shouldn't run a loop with air bubbles in it though)
    
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post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggalo23451 View Post
mcp355 has a Maximum Pressure: 22 PSI for example
You mean 6 PSI right? 22 is the head pressure in feet .
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post #5 of 10
Most water cooled systems are plagued by bad bleeding and air bubbles, building something into your loop that will give the air a place to accumulate over time is a good way to go, and takes a couple days.

Also think about how you are going to add/drain fluid later... I am amazed how often this is overlooked...


The impengement style blocks and high turbulent block designs which are more like filter designs rather than high flow channels, this will break up the air into very tiny bubbles, some which will become soluable or entrained, and come out later, others will accumulate around the pump/res depending on how it is connected and certainly in the highest point in the system, which if your clever, will be the fill port or if you have one of the (imoho better) rads, a bleeder screw on or near the plenum.

The system impact is marginal, maybe, maybe, a fraction of a C at idle, and you wont know the difference at load or equalibrium temp. I did all my prime 95 OC testing with a res full of bubbles (after a 24 hr leak test of course).

The little pumps dont make much in the way of backpressure on there own, so as your fluid is pumped away and into the loop, you will find the return pressure is pretty much whatever the vacuum pressure is in your setup, and its not much at all.

You will know all this but to illustrate the little forces involved... total pressure will be whatever the pump is making at the outlet (max pressure), minus all the bends/twist/resistance all the way to return, and sorta helped out by the vacuum pressure. In my loop, if I hold up my fill line well above the rad, turn on the loop, there will be a slight drop in the water level in the fill tube, which is the fluid filling the lines, I know this as the fill is above the loop, which is itself the highest point in the rad, (as the system is filled, the pressure is the fluid pressing against the plumbing) expanding the ID from 1/2 to "whatever" The fill line is 1/2ID, so less than an 1" drop... and I have lots of tubing in my loop... so... guesstimating... I make around... pie(r)^2... = .196" *3/4"=.147" h20= .049Psi So on pump power alone, I make a whopping .049 psi... The equipment feels more force just from gravity tugging on the water...

Someone feel free to correct me if I missed something..
 
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post #6 of 10
Sorry, I don't quite get how you drew the conclusion that your pump is creating 0.5 psi.


Also, raising the filling tube and observing a drop of level in the tube sounds more likely to be attributed to soft pipes changing shape and being able to accommodate a larger amount of liquid (perhaps).


And, assuming the observed drop is due to air pockets in the loop, the amount those air pockets compress is highly dependant on the size of the pockets, so you wouldn't be able to calculate a pressure change from a change in fluid height without knowing all of the pressures of the pockets contained within the loop.

Unless! of course, the only pocket you are accounting for is in the reservoir, which would have to have it's top off so it could be assumed to be atmospheric... *and exhale*



Sorry, I'm sprawling thoughts down as they come. And sorry if that's a bit full on, I'm only so critical because it's something I've been thinking about doing for my loop.



P.S.
A thought I just had, as I mentioned there, I don't think measuring the pressure by the fluid drop would work since there are too many other factors involved, but would a negative pressure calc on the atmosphere in the fill tube work better? (assuming it's closed and airtight).
    
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post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by darksuffering View Post
Alright first off I am a car guy with interests in custom computers etc etc. This income tax time I wanna build a new rig and do a water cooling setup, I know all the how to stuff but do water cooling setups have any PSI like a vehicles loop?

its a really weird question but I am curious, if my car has air bubbles in the cooling system I have little to non PSI (which will cause overheating) but with no air bubbles it reaches 11psi.
Im guessing youre referring to like radiator caps having specified pressure ratings, and the fact that the cooling system increases in pressure as engine temperature increases.
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabid View Post
Sorry, I don't quite get how you drew the conclusion that your pump is creating 0.5 psi.
Well I didnt, I said .05, which is to an order of less pressure.

Quote:
Also, raising the filling tube and observing a drop of level in the tube sounds more likely to be attributed to soft pipes changing shape and being able to accommodate a larger amount of liquid (perhaps).
Again true, and as I said, its a guesstimate at best, to resolve this I would have to compare the fill tube as is, to a liquid column gauge and come up with some sort of real ratio. You are right though, it is the tube expanding in diameter in the system as the pump forces liquid through it... as a fluid will not compress, the plumbing must expand, as it is the elasticity of the expanding plumbing that accounts for a "fluid pressure".

Quote:
And, assuming the observed drop is due to air pockets in the loop, the amount those air pockets compress is highly dependant on the size of the pockets, so you wouldn't be able to calculate a pressure change from a change in fluid height without knowing all of the pressures of the pockets contained within the loop.
I am not assuming it is air pockets in my loop, I am assuming next to no "air pockets" in my loop, so its not the air compressing, it is the plumbing expanding. In relation to the h20 being pushed away by the pump, I mentioned in the beginning of my post that one of the worst issues I see with h20 cooling is the piss poor bleeding of the systems. The water I am measuring is above the entirety of the loop, thus as the pump is on, water drops to fill the expanded tubing, when it is shut off, the water returns in relation to the tubing contracting.

Quote:
Unless! of course, the only pocket you are accounting for is in the reservoir, which would have to have it's top off so it could be assumed to be atmospheric... *and exhale*
There is no air pocket at the top of my res, my fillport is a mod to the xspc res/top with a G1/4 fitting that is connected to my fill line, which goes out of the case and above the highest point in the loop, interestingly, this column static "pressure" did cause this res to leak around that fitting, which took a quick fix, its under column pressure which explains why it would leak up and out... Lots of pipe tape, better o-ring, and a good bit more torque than on all the other fittings in the loop (in comparison). The rad is the highest active point in the system, and has a bleeder screw, which I will confirm was bled extensively using a brake bleeding kit.

Quote:
Sorry, I'm sprawling thoughts down as they come. And sorry if that's a bit full on, I'm only so critical because it's something I've been thinking about doing for my loop.
Theres nothing to be sorry about at all, if we did not challenge each other, then we would not learn and get better at doing this stuff. If you smell bull****, than by all means call it out!


Quote:
P.S.
A thought I just had, as I mentioned there, I don't think measuring the pressure by the fluid drop would work since there are too many other factors involved, but would a negative pressure calc on the atmosphere in the fill tube work better? (assuming it's closed and airtight).
Well I went with the logic/reasoning that the fluid would not compress, and that in a near perfectly bled system there would be no air to compress within the system, thus as the pump would be activated, the highest point in the system which is an extension of my reservoir and not a part of the loop, would drop fluid, that it could be reasonably assumed that the water drop would be proportional too the tubing expansion within the system, which is directly proportional to the active dynamic vacuum pressure of the pump.

In no way does that number of .05 (again guesstimate) psi reflect the power of the pump, it simply reflects the vacuum pressure created in my closed loop. Said pressure could be used to determine the system psi on a gauge. Because I am comparing like to like, and all things being equal, all that remains is to determine the amount of suction it would take to pull 3/4" of water vertically through a 1/2" ID fesser tube, which I am stating aint much.

The point was to illustrate that pressures on a car/sports car water system are well beyond the forces experienced in a typical h20 cooling rig. If your water cooling rig springs a leak it does not spray a stream a dozen feet, it burbles a couple drops... cause theres no differential pressure... on a high performance car engine (like on my merc slk 32 sc) if i were to cut the supercharger cooling line, it will jet out... but its under farrrr more pressure.
 
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post #9 of 10
Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thx for the reply


Also... Nice car
    
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post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabid View Post
Ah ok, that makes a lot more sense. Thx for the reply


Also... Nice car
hehe well I only have the engine... not the merc itself! I run a chrysler crossfire srt-6 05... which utilizes that engine and supercharger.

Thought fuel anyhow... suffice to say, reciprocating circulation systems like fish tanks/water fixtures/ pc cooling... dont make much internal pressure beyond what the mechanical force is that is being put onto the fluid by the pump itself... and these pumps are really rink a' dink. I suspect a pressurized system would do more to impede the pump from spinning (by applying forces to it) than it would help it. Ive never seen it, but I suspect it would be possibly to hydraulically lock one of these pumps.
 
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