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(UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity. - Page 13

post #121 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
If they use CO2 to produce fuel, there's no reason for global warming activists to not be overjoyed about this discovery.


And what would be wrong with that?
I'd rather we move willingly or no to ceasing burning crap to move from point A to point B. In the US we have a stupid number of cars on the road relative to the population. With electric vehicles we at least are lessening the # of cars in the US burning crap and putting chemicals in the air. As I said many times in this thread CO2 is not the only thing coming out of your tailpipe.

Cheap gas is good in the short term for our wallets, but in the long term causes automakers and inventors to post-pone or cease efforts to getting off gas. We've had non-ICE vehicles for over half a decade now-one of the many reasons no one has put serious effort into R&Ding the tech until really now (a la Volt/Leaf) is because with cheap gas no one cares about mileage/efficiency that much.

Detroit was fat and happy making Hummer-type vehicles and folks were fine buying them. Didn't care about R&Ding electric vehicles...until gas prices spiked, and now the Hummer brand itself is retired I believe.
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post #122 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Solar has already been proven ( via a source/thread on OCN ) to be cheaper than nuclear. Solar has a high UP FRONT cost that you more than earn back throughout the years.

People keep repeating that old stuff about solar being expensive. Solar is about $30k for a 2000kw/h system and that's not just the panels, that's the installation and electrical wiring upgrades needed.

2001kw/hrs cost me $300 exactly and I'm covered by SMUD, which is one of the CHEAPEST utility companies in the NATION. They're so cheap that the city of Davis almost incorporated itself into Sacramento county JUST so it could use SMUD instead of PG&E.

My Tier 1 usage is up to 700kw/hr and costs $.09, Tier 2 is 701 kw/h - 1000 kw/h and costs $.157, Tier 3 is 1001 kw/h and up and costs $.175. My average bill is around $200 and I have a relatively modest 1200sq ft, 3 bd 2 bth home with no pool.

So 12 months x $200 = $2,400 per year. $30k/$2.4k = 12.5 yrs paid off

12.5 yrs of payments to have a system that will last you +30 yrs AND will be much cheaper to load new panels on......


So can we stop saying solar is expensive now?
I'm going to save people a lot of reading and condense this. Solar is awesome, in the right place. Where I live (look left) solar is close to useless and a system that would fit my low electrical usage would cost me around $25k since where I live has way less usable sunlight (half or less) than Sacramento. It would take me about 25.5 years to break even if I paid for the system straight up with no interest. At that point the money is better invested in a CD, MMA, or your 401k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
What?

My last electric bill was 2,583kWhr last month (11/22/10-12/22/10). And cost me $136.52+taxes/fees=154.01. This is for electric heat-pump heating, in addition to normal household.

What was that about cheapest in the nation?

BTW-my post you quoted said NOTHING about cost. It was about inefficiency and land usage.
Heat pumps are useless where I live too (I realize this has nothing to do with the point of the post). Stupid weather extremes. Great for places like Washington though. My area sucks for just about everything "green" but wind and nuclear.

Edit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
I'd rather we move willingly or no to ceasing burning crap to move from point A to point B. In the US we have a stupid number of cars on the road relative to the population. With electric vehicles we at least are lessening the # of cars in the US burning crap and putting chemicals in the air. As I said many times in this thread CO2 is not the only thing coming out of your tailpipe.

Cheap gas is good in the short term for our wallets, but in the long term causes automakers and inventors to post-pone or cease efforts to getting off gas. We've had non-ICE vehicles for over half a decade now-one of the many reasons no one has put serious effort into R&Ding the tech until really now (a la Volt/Leaf) is because with cheap gas no one cares about mileage/efficiency that much.

Detroit was fat and happy making Hummer-type vehicles and folks were fine buying them. Didn't care about R&Ding electric vehicles...until gas prices spiked, and now the Hummer brand itself is retired I believe.
For the record the Hummer was made in and by a company in Indiana and lasted only 17 years (the civilian model at least). It wasn't bought by a Detroit company until 1999 and wasn't a big (relative term) seller until they made smaller, less gas using versions. AKA nobody bought "Hummer-type" vehicles because they are bigger than almost everything on the road outside of semi's and buses. That and because it cost over $100k.
Edited by Kirmie - 1/18/11 at 2:07pm
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post #123 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hephasteus View Post
Well sulpher is present in oil. There's a bunch of oil that has huge amounts of sulpher that is used but has to be scrubbed first before using. The lack of large amounts of sulphur in crude oil give it the designation of "sweet". Light sweet crude. Indicates there are some light volatile molecules. Sweet indicates it's not chocked full of sulpher.
But that's my point. Sulphur emissions occur because you don't get pure oil, you get oil with stuff in it. But you wouldn't get sulphur in synthetic oil (quite aside from the fact that each strain of bacteria only produces one hydrocarbon, not a mix like crude oil), so it won't be present in the emissions.
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post #124 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post
green efforts in biofuels
Massive contradiction tbh. Look up how much land is needed to produce biofuel and then come back. Greenies ignore that.
post #125 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilam3d View Post
Looks like "Unlimited" Pollution to me.

Anyways nothing is unlimited in a finite planet.

And for those of you bashing alternative energies... How about considering Geothermal or Solar? They're out there, in uncounted quantities, for free.
they are not widespread for a reason. you can argue that the oil people are holding back progress but there are some real legitimate reasons that they are not widespread.

geothermal energy is only available in certain places around the world. solar energy does not provide a lot of energy when most expensive and commercially available panels are only around 11% efficient. but you can look forward to the good news in this article or maybe nuclear fusion. the only things that are comparable or better than oil in the energy they provide is coal, which accounts for most of america's electrical needs, and nuclear energy.
Edited by dontpwnmebro - 1/18/11 at 2:25pm
post #126 of 801
This seems too good to be true. An organism that sucks up CO2 to make fuel that we use which makes CO2? I wonder if this would make me move away from fuel efficienct cars, though...I love being able to travel over 500 miles on a tank of gas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralThrawn View Post
Omg I heard about this listening to RadioLab LAST NIGHT. I thought it was something like 20 years away and/or the oil companies would burn the lab to the ground to hide the research.

IF it's real, then
Yeah, they had better have some bad ass security, and their research stored many times over throughout the country.
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post #127 of 801
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
Yeah, they had better have some bad ass security, and their research stored many times over throughout the country.
I would imagine they have something like Fort Knox security.
post #128 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Solar has already been proven ( via a source/thread on OCN ) to be cheaper than nuclear. Solar has a high UP FRONT cost that you more than earn back throughout the years.

People keep repeating that old stuff about solar being expensive. Solar is about $30k for a 2000kw/h system and that's not just the panels, that's the installation and electrical wiring upgrades needed.

2001kw/hrs cost me $300 exactly and I'm covered by SMUD, which is one of the CHEAPEST utility companies in the NATION. They're so cheap that the city of Davis almost incorporated itself into Sacramento county JUST so it could use SMUD instead of PG&E.

My Tier 1 usage is up to 700kw/hr and costs $.09, Tier 2 is 701 kw/h - 1000 kw/h and costs $.157, Tier 3 is 1001 kw/h and up and costs $.175. My average bill is around $200 and I have a relatively modest 1200sq ft, 3 bd 2 bth home with no pool.

So 12 months x $200 = $2,400 per year. $30k/$2.4k = 12.5 yrs paid off

12.5 yrs of payments to have a system that will last you +30 yrs AND will be much cheaper to load new panels on......


So can we stop saying solar is expensive now?
no LOL!
its $30K for everything. i can afford that like, right now.its CHEEP!

but its ok. im getting paid by the energy companies $200/month so in about 12.5yr. the companies will pay all of that $30k back to me.
Edited by dontpwnmebro - 1/18/11 at 2:58pm
post #129 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargate125645 View Post
This seems too good to be true. An organism that sucks up CO2 to make fuel that we use which makes CO2?
A plant is an organism that sucks up CO2 to make sugar that the metabolic process uses as fuel, releasing CO2 as exhaust. Just swap ethane for sucrose.
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post #130 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post
Solar has already been proven ( via a source/thread on OCN ) to be cheaper than nuclear. Solar has a high UP FRONT cost that you more than earn back throughout the years.

People keep repeating that old stuff about solar being expensive. Solar is about $30k for a 2000kw/h system and that's not just the panels, that's the installation and electrical wiring upgrades needed.

2001kw/hrs cost me $300 exactly and I'm covered by SMUD, which is one of the CHEAPEST utility companies in the NATION. They're so cheap that the city of Davis almost incorporated itself into Sacramento county JUST so it could use SMUD instead of PG&E.

My Tier 1 usage is up to 700kw/hr and costs $.09, Tier 2 is 701 kw/h - 1000 kw/h and costs $.157, Tier 3 is 1001 kw/h and up and costs $.175. My average bill is around $200 and I have a relatively modest 1200sq ft, 3 bd 2 bth home with no pool.

So 12 months x $200 = $2,400 per year. $30k/$2.4k = 12.5 yrs paid off

12.5 yrs of payments to have a system that will last you +30 yrs AND will be much cheaper to load new panels on......


So can we stop saying solar is expensive now?
I think you have your units screwed up. A watt is already a measure of energy per time interval. Energy usage is per kW*hr. I don't understand what you are saying because of this.
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