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(UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity. - Page 14

post #131 of 801
Yes! When will this start tho?
post #132 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontpwnmebro View Post
no LOL!
its $30K for everything. i can afford that like, right now.its CHEEP!

but its ok. im getting paid by the energy companies $200/month so in about 12.5yr. the companies will pay all of that $30k back to me.
I know you're being sarcastic but most if not all electric companies will not "pay" you for the electricity your producing beyond what your using but they will credit your account. Therefore it would be smart to not get more solar panels then what you need.
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post #133 of 801
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Originally Posted by chinesekiwi View Post
Massive contradiction tbh. Look up how much land is needed to produce biofuel and then come back. Greenies ignore that.
It's not a contradiction at all...just because, up to this point, biofuels have failed to be green doesn't change the fact that the end goal of biofuels is, in fact, to be green.

Your logic says that if I attempt to do A, but end up with B instead, then my goal must have been to do B since the beginning. The key word is effort. This is a breakthrough in biofuel that supplies a green solution.

Note that I never said I supported any of the previous "solutions," such as corn ethanol. I understand quite clearly the amount of land it would take for those kinds of solutions. And has been stated, this ecoli bacteria would need a land mass approximately the size of Maryland to supply the entire country with fuel. There is more than enough unused land for that kind of pursuit.
Edited by flamingoyster - 1/18/11 at 3:31pm
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post #134 of 801
I wonder what kind of metabolism these E.coli are using. My best guess would be a modified form of the Reductive-TCA cycle.


This is a pretty big breakthrough IMO. However, I doubt we'll be seeing this on a large enough scale to make much difference, for an extended period of time.
post #135 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
I don't see how an oil company could keep this quiet. It seems likethere would be an incredible amount of money to be made in reducing the cost of oil to the populous, and someone would be willing to run with it.

I'd burn my face off before I'd let an oil company stifle progress.
I doubt it. It would certainly bring production costs down, but selling it at $30 a barrel would cut revenue by about 70%, which no company would EVER greenlight, regardless of benefits.

I think this tech being made mainstream for fuel manufacture relies entirely on one thing: will the oil companies have the foresight to see that selling oil at 25% of current cost for the rest of time would be more profitable than selling it at current prices for the next ten decades until it runs out?

Though I'll be honest, I'm kinda torn about this. If we can, essentially, manufacture oil overnight, the incentive to develop alternate fuels for reasons other than snob value go straight out the window.
post #136 of 801
Yuss!!! Just organising a Supercharged 1uz-fe for my Hilux
post #137 of 801
Sorry to be the bad voice you don't want to hear but...

Quote:
Joule says it now has “a library†of fossil-fuel organisms at work in its Massachusetts labs, each engineered to produce a different fuel. It has “proven the process,†has produced ethanol (for example) at a rate equivalent to 10,000 U.S. gallons an acre a year. It anticipates that this yield could hit 25,000 gallons an acre a year when scaled for commercial production, equivalent to roughly 800 barrels of crude an acre a year.
Lets see. The US alone needs around 6.900.000.000 barrels of oil a year. Now, if take in ind that we can extract something like 20 gallons per barrel, our acre is giving us 500 barrels a year...but lets accept the most optimistic rate, which is 2.5 times higher, aka 1250 barrels/acre/year.

Ok. So, using this technique, we would only require 5.520.000 acres which translate to 22.356km2. That would be more or less the size of Israel, so go figure.

Now, how many people would be needed in order to take care of such a huge extension of terrain? What kind of weather can it sustain?

As you see, its just pointless. Yes, in small scales it could work, but in order to stop drilling holes into the earth we need something practical, and something that can be upscaled to need...and I don't think this is the case. Ah! Take in mind that our fuel requeriments can only go up with time, specially now that some countries are starting to see a heavy development and that means a spike in energy needs.

I'm sorry, but the only reliable energy source its going to be fusion. Until then... I would only trust fision, but we are too stupid to understand how rational would be to heavily use nuclear energy.
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post #138 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
How is it a setback?

I mean, even if they discovered alternative energy tonight, they would probably still burn coal for another 10 years.
Thanks to this, it'd be more likely to keep us on fossil fuels indefinitely because companies are cheap, in a perfect world it'd be just there to give us time to redo the infrastructure, but pobodys nerfect.

Remember that CO2 isn't the only greenhouse gas and cars, etc produce more than just CO2, CO2 may stay at equal levels but the others will just increase.
    
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post #139 of 801
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Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
I'd rather we move willingly or no to ceasing burning crap to move from point A to point B. In the US we have a stupid number of cars on the road relative to the population. With electric vehicles we at least are lessening the # of cars in the US burning crap and putting chemicals in the air. As I said many times in this thread CO2 is not the only thing coming out of your tailpipe.

Cheap gas is good in the short term for our wallets, but in the long term causes automakers and inventors to post-pone or cease efforts to getting off gas. We've had non-ICE vehicles for over half a decade now-one of the many reasons no one has put serious effort into R&Ding the tech until really now (a la Volt/Leaf) is because with cheap gas no one cares about mileage/efficiency that much.

Detroit was fat and happy making Hummer-type vehicles and folks were fine buying them. Didn't care about R&Ding electric vehicles...until gas prices spiked, and now the Hummer brand itself is retired I believe.
Problem is, we all still have to travel the same distances. If gas prices go up, and we move to electric vehicles, which are more costly to run than current efficient ICE-based cars, then the monthly expenses will still be higher than they are now.

If we want this economy to get back into shape, we need to be spending LESS money on transportation, not more. I firmly believe that high gas prices kick-started the recession in the summer of '08. This is one reason I am not an advocate of electric vehicles - they're expensive to purchase and maintain, even with the taxpayer subsidies .

As far as pollution, well, plenty of people have lived through the industrial ages and survived to 100+. I'm fine with the current amounts of pollutants in the air. If you REALLY believe that we need cleaner air, then show me some proof that dirty air, caused by consumer vehicles, is causing deaths or illness. Last I checked, people-moving vehicles were the source of a very very small portion of overall pollution in the US.

Oh, and what makes you think that batteries are any cleaner/safer than gasoline engines in the first place? Have you actually looked at the entire process for creating the batteries placed in electric vehicles? And the disposal? It's ridden with pollution far more toxic than anything produced from internal combustion. But of course, the environmentalists don't ever mention that part of it (or just hold blindly to the falsity that electric cars will somehow save our planet, and don't bother to even look into it).

We've had electric vehicles for a century now, not just 5 years. They've failed every time in the past, and they'll probably fail again. Time will tell... and I can only hope the efficient and proven methods of the ICE will prevail.
post #140 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by prava View Post
Sorry to be the bad voice you don't want to hear but...



Lets see. The US alone needs around 6.900.000.000 barrels of oil a year. Now, if take in ind that we can extract something like 20 gallons per barrel, our acre is giving us 500 barrels a year...but lets accept the most optimistic rate, which is 2.5 times higher, aka 1250 barrels/acre/year.

Ok. So, using this technique, we would only require 5.520.000 acres which translate to 22.356km2. That would be more or less the size of Israel, so go figure.

Now, how many people would be needed in order to take care of such a huge extension of terrain? What kind of weather can it sustain?

As you see, its just pointless. Yes, in small scales it could work, but in order to stop drilling holes into the earth we need something practical, and something that can be upscaled to need...and I don't think this is the case. Ah! Take in mind that our fuel requeriments can only go up with time, specially now that some countries are starting to see a heavy development and that means a spike in energy needs.

I'm sorry, but the only reliable energy source its going to be fusion. Until then... I would only trust fision, but we are too stupid to understand how rational would be to heavily use nuclear energy.
You must have stopped reading once and quoted the second you reached that part of the article. Other than that, your point that this shouldn't prevent us from achieving even better energy sources is definitely worthy.
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