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(UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity. - Page 39

post #381 of 801
ask the cold fusion scientists if this is a safe field of work
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post #382 of 801
I'm not sure if this has been stated, I have not read the entire thread. Some simple math and statistics puts this into perspective as to the effect this will have on the world's crude oil supply. Here's the math:

800 barrels per acre per year
43,560 square feet per acre
1 barrel per 54.45 square feet each year
960,000 barrels per year at 1200 acres
4,000,000 barrels per year at 5000 acres

In 2009, the US consumed 18,810,010 barrels per day. If they wanted to match this, they'd need 8,582,067.0625 acres at full production annually.

Clearly, this is a long way off from having a real impact on our oil price, simply because, in comparison, it is not producing nearly enough in order to have a noticeable impact. However, this also depends on how quickly 1 barrel can be produced. The frequency of which a barrel can be produced has a larger impact than amount per year. This is because, when compared to extracted crude oil, it will matter more if one of these barrels can be produced faster and cheaper than 1 barrel can be extracted from the earth.

If they want to compete, that is what they have to focus on.
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post #383 of 801
THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION. This is to give time to find alternatives. This doesn't eliminate any problems except for oil independence.
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post #384 of 801
Imagine this scenario: Joule makes a profit off this. Joule turns said profit into R&D towards better energy and slowly releasing the grip of the middle east on the west's energy supplies. Relaxed grip means more profit means more R&D. R&D eventually finds a way to make one of the other big possible energy sources a reality, and then commercializes it. I think this discovery is only going to be used by Joule to be sure they're first on the scene with the next huge energy industry.
post #385 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmenianLegend View Post
YES, I’ll be able to drive my 300zxTT a lot more often!!!
ill be able to drive my 73' torino more often!
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post #386 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillmiester View Post
Im not sure what physics your reffering to, the one where energy is created nor destroyed. Im sorry but that isnt the case. Nothing is finite in this universe. Even matter itself is not actually physical unless there is an observer.
How about the physics that says you can't make energy for free?

I don't care how many fancy magnets you put into something, ultimately any energy you get out has to be accounted for in the energy put in.
    
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post #387 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SI51 View Post
I'm not sure if this has been stated, I have not read the entire thread. Some simple math and statistics puts this into perspective as to the effect this will have on the world's crude oil supply. Here's the math:

800 barrels per acre per year
43,560 square feet per acre
1 barrel per 54.45 square feet each year
960,000 barrels per year at 1200 acres
4,000,000 barrels per year at 5000 acres

In 2009, the US consumed 18,810,010 barrels per day. If they wanted to match this, they'd need 8,582,067.0625 acres at full production annually.

Clearly, this is a long way off from having a real impact on our oil price, simply because, in comparison, it is not producing nearly enough in order to have a noticeable impact. However, this also depends on how quickly 1 barrel can be produced. The frequency of which a barrel can be produced has a larger impact than amount per year. This is because, when compared to extracted crude oil, it will matter more if one of these barrels can be produced faster and cheaper than 1 barrel can be extracted from the earth.

If they want to compete, that is what they have to focus on.
Very good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by urgrandpasdog View Post
How about the physics that says you can't make energy for free?

I don't care how many fancy magnets you put into something, ultimately any energy you get out has to be accounted for in the energy put in.
the physics.... there is a law that says you can't many energy for free? free as in freedom?
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post #388 of 801
Conservation of energy

energy in must equal energy out.

Conservation of mass

mass in must equal mass out.
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post #389 of 801
LOL, i feel stupid, thanks for clarification
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post #390 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SI51 View Post
I'm not sure if this has been stated, I have not read the entire thread. Some simple math and statistics puts this into perspective as to the effect this will have on the world's crude oil supply. Here's the math:

800 barrels per acre per year
43,560 square feet per acre
1 barrel per 54.45 square feet each year
960,000 barrels per year at 1200 acres
4,000,000 barrels per year at 5000 acres

In 2009, the US consumed 18,810,010 barrels per day. If they wanted to match this, they'd need 8,582,067.0625 acres at full production annually.
It is perfectly feasible to dedicate 8.58 million acres of farm land to this sort of energy production. Let's call it an even 10 million acres needed, accounting for waste & buffer. The US has 922,095,840 acres of total farmland and 406,424,909 of that are dedicated to crops. That means a dedication of about 2.5% of us cropland to US oil consumption. Assuming your numbers are correct, that's an ok trade-off. Of course that's 2.5% of US cropland to meet one day of consumption. If I'm getting this right, that's pretty intimidating.

Now consider this: About 49 million acres of US farmland are dedicated to making ethanol from corn for the purpose of blending with gasoline (this is a very conservative estimate, other estimates peg it at nearly double this figure, or 78 million acres). That doesn't even come close to meeting our consumption of gasoline, and further, many studies believe that this process actually increases our annual oil consumption. So compare this 50-80 million acres to the 10 million or so acres needed by this new fuel making process and we can see that we're already dedicating a much larger amount of cropland to fuel here in the US. This doesn't account for other crops and waste material used to make ethanol for fuel, nor does it take into consideration that less arable land may be used for fuel production.

Ethanol from corn has seen advances over the past several decades increasing economic and yield efficiencies. It is not a new process. We can expect this new process to evolve and become more efficient over time and gain in importance. Now if I understand the new process, it in fact doesn't require the use of cropland at all! They plan on using this in the MIDDLE OF THE DESERT! It's an area quite inhospitable to cattle or corn production. Certainly we could spare a little wasteland for the production of fuel... already we create wasteland in the production of fuel so it shouldn't be in short supply.

http://151.121.68.30/StateFacts/US.htm
http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/
http://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Publica...ajor_Crops.pdf
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=7308
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/...49215820070611
Edited by TehStone - 6/4/11 at 3:01pm
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