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(UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity. - Page 62

post #611 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingoyster View Post


Actually, there are 640 acres per mile so we're looking at 13,000 square miles or roughly the size of Maryland. In comparison, there are over a million square miles of farmland in the US.

13K miles? The barren California/Nevada desert could easily handle that.
post #612 of 801
overhyped bull. I havn't seen anything that leads me to believe the promised land of biologically produced fuel can come anywhere near to competing with fossil fuels. They always seem to ignore the reality of the resource cost to feed the bacteria, and how much fuel the bacteria produces per sq foot of land the plant takes up. When I see cheaper fuel at the pumps I'll pay attention to crap like this.

... not to mention... "feeds solely on carbon dioxide" ... where is it getting the hydrogen for the fuels it's producing then? no, they're leaving out the fact that the bacteria will need some sort of energy input to produce hydrocarbons from co2 and h2o. The same way plants need it, imagine that. So I see two choices, photosynthesizing bacteria that produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient, or bacteria that consumes organic matter to produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient and require oodles of organic matter to feed.

so biofuel. What a pipedream. Is it even fuel positive in it's cycle? Counting the oil required to produce the organics (corn) to feed the system to produce the fuel.
post #613 of 801
I would think that **** technology would follow normal economic simplicity. If the supply is increased it lowers demand and thus lowers price. The real question for this technology is, can it be used to fuel the oil industry outside of transportation?

What a lot of people neglect to identify the oil situation with, is that oil is a huge part of industry in many facets. Think of everything in the modern world and you find that at the heart of manufacturing it is deeply embedded with oil-derivative products. Nearly everything made today interacts with oil in some fashion or another, be it energy, transportation, or manufacturing.

You'd be surprised the amount of items in your home that were derived from and oil-based manufacturing process.
    
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post #614 of 801
Hmmmm I'm not sure it will make it to full production, as most things like this don't mad.gif
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post #615 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghooble View Post

Hmmmm I'm not sure it will make it to full production, as most things like this don't mad.gif

Did you happen to read the article? They're currently building these centers to develop the product! They've got good people coming into the business to make sure it gets off the ground smoothly too and enter the market with some steam.
    
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post #616 of 801
Seeing how we have progress and more than a "oh look at this" and then nothing else... I'd bet this comes to fruitation. Hopefully they can do the price quoted, but even half of what it is now would be nice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUNAR View Post

in such a state of global economy crysis they patent such stuffs ? are you friggin kidding me ? seriously americans and their ideas are top notch !! i hope this joule company survives till we reach our 2nd Civilization and then they could trade with our immortal beings !
What?
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post #617 of 801
If I remember correctly they plan on using the same tech to power the super city structure they are building in Japan.
post #618 of 801
This is quite the breakthrough. This is a truly renewable source of energy, and it sounds like they're gearing up for mass-market production.

This is possibly the next step in energy usage.
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post #619 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

overhyped bull. I havn't seen anything that leads me to believe the promised land of biologically produced fuel can come anywhere near to competing with fossil fuels. They always seem to ignore the reality of the resource cost to feed the bacteria, and how much fuel the bacteria produces per sq foot of land the plant takes up. When I see cheaper fuel at the pumps I'll pay attention to crap like this.
... not to mention... "feeds solely on carbon dioxide" ... where is it getting the hydrogen for the fuels it's producing then? no, they're leaving out the fact that the bacteria will need some sort of energy input to produce hydrocarbons from co2 and h2o. The same way plants need it, imagine that. So I see two choices, photosynthesizing bacteria that produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient, or bacteria that consumes organic matter to produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient and require oodles of organic matter to feed.
so biofuel. What a pipedream. Is it even fuel positive in it's cycle? Counting the oil required to produce the organics (corn) to feed the system to produce the fuel.

You really should read up on the technology before you bash it. There's also this other thing called sunlight, that the technology uses. Here, in case you were curious:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204524604576610703305792650.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_News_JOURNALREPORTS7_2 
Joule took a different path. It uses genetically modified strains of cyanobacteria, which are water-based organisms that make their food through photosynthesis. The organisms, created by a scientific team led by Joule co-founder Noubar Afeyan, can be tweaked to produce different fuels—one form can produce simple ethanol, while another generates more-complex diesel molecules.

While regular algae has to be harvested and processed to squeeze out hydrocarbons, Joule's cyanobacteria release fuels continuously.

Joule's other innovation is its SolarConverter bioreactor, a system of closed tanks that look like solar panels, where the organisms grow and release their fuels. Designed to maximize the amount of sunlight that reaches each organism, the tanks mix the cyanobacteria colonies with water laced with micronutrients and piped-in carbon dioxide. Liquid fuels are separated from the water and piped to nearby tanks for storage.
Photosynthesis isn't hocus-pocus. It's an established method and the company's research is quite reputable. This isn't the dirty idea of "biodiesel." This is not a situation where you have to take a cellulose/starch form and convert it to fuel. You let the bacteria do what they naturally do--use photosynthesis to live--and then also tweak their DNA such that the by-products they make are ethanol (or some other hydrocarbon that you can use instead of fossil fuels), or some other hydrocarbon. The advantage of joule is that they have demonstrated that they can generate adequate quantities of pre-fule materials on a large scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LUNAR View Post

in such a state of global economy crysis they patent such stuffs ? are you friggin kidding me ? seriously americans and their ideas are top notch !! i hope this joule company survives till we reach our 2nd Civilization and then they could trade with our immortal beings !

It's not free or even cheap to develop new technologies. They should have some sort of protection to recoup their investments for a period of time.
Edited by guyladouche - 1/23/12 at 8:52pm
    
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post #620 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyMcFlych View Post

overhyped bull. I havn't seen anything that leads me to believe the promised land of biologically produced fuel can come anywhere near to competing with fossil fuels. They always seem to ignore the reality of the resource cost to feed the bacteria, and how much fuel the bacteria produces per sq foot of land the plant takes up. When I see cheaper fuel at the pumps I'll pay attention to crap like this.

... not to mention... "feeds solely on carbon dioxide" ... where is it getting the hydrogen for the fuels it's producing then? no, they're leaving out the fact that the bacteria will need some sort of energy input to produce hydrocarbons from co2 and h2o. The same way plants need it, imagine that. So I see two choices, photosynthesizing bacteria that produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient, or bacteria that consumes organic matter to produce hydrocarbons... which would be slow and inefficient and require oodles of organic matter to feed.

so biofuel. What a pipedream. Is it even fuel positive in it's cycle? Counting the oil required to produce the organics (corn) to feed the system to produce the fuel.

If it is a pipe dream, why are they in the process of planning the build sites in several locations. I would hope they have a proven method that can be "fuel positive" if they are already building the facilities. If it was still in the testing phase, with no plans to mass produce, I would think more like you as well. We have had news articles about other methods by the dozen that have came and gone, never to be heard from again. I can see why you are skeptical, but this is the first one that I know about that are building facilities and planning mass production. That alone tells me they have something more than all those past "miracle" breakthrough's.
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