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(UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity. - Page 9

post #81 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowclock View Post
Just did the calculations...
  • 800 barrels of oil per acre per year.
  • US uses 7 billion barrels of oil per year.
  • 640 acres in a square mile.

That gives us 7 billion / 800 / 640 = 13,671 square miles of needed land to match what we currently use. (About the size of Maryland)....That actually isn't too terrible...about the size of Maryland but there is still a massive amount of unused space in the US.

There may be a way to "stack" the "farms" but that is a huge amount of space needed to produce what we currently use.

Thanks for updating that. And amazing numbers indeed.

Also figure, 100% of the plants will not produce 100% of their capability 100% of the time. So... without knowing what kind of up/down time you need to prepare, start and achieve maximum yield you'd probably need to add anywhere from 5-15% to the total (perhaps even more) to keep yield above maximum consumption.

I'm skeptical that this could be accomplished in the amount of time we have left... another decade or two perhaps?

The age of the great energy surplus is drawing to an end...
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post #82 of 801
It seems like they're claiming proof of concept in a lab setting, but often the most difficult part is scaling up a lab experiment to a level where it's commercially viable.

It sounds good on paper, but it could be a long while before we reap any benefits from this.
Edited by dkim1359 - 1/18/11 at 11:02am
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post #83 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by willis888 View Post
That's true. It is an oversimplification to only talk about CO2.

Whatever atoms go into making a gasoline molecule needed to enter the bacteria somehow. Ideally that "other unhealthy junk" could be fed straight back into the bacteria tanks. In practice, the bacteria may or may not be able to use every byproduct, and might need to get certain atoms from a source other than car exhaust.
The problem arises in that gasoline combustion only needs O2 and gasoline to put out heat+water+CO2. Dry air is mostly Nitrogen (~78%) laced with some Oxygen (21%), and assorted other stuff-then there's all the additional impurities from humidity etc. on top of whatever metals get burned off of the engine train in combustion...the result being that you get lots of unhealthy crap generated on your way to CO2+H20...say benzene (cancer causing) and NO compounds as well as sulfur oxides (your acid rain).
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post #84 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
The problem arises in that gasoline combustion only needs O2 and gasoline to put out heat+water+CO2. Dry air is mostly Nitrogen (~78%) laced with some Oxygen (21%), and assorted other stuff-then there's all the additional impurities from humidity etc. on top of whatever metals get burned off of the engine train in combustion...the result being that you get lots of unhealthy crap generated on your way to CO2+H20...say benzene (cancer causing) and NO compounds as well as sulfur oxides (your acid rain).
Catalytic Converter

Read it for the info on how we deal with a lot of those issues and what some of those issues are.
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post #85 of 801
The main problem that we have been having with fossil fuels to date is that we are dragging vast amounts of CO2 up from under the ground and releasing it into the atmosphere. If we can stop doing this and just recycle the CO2 that is already in the atmosphere then it will solve some problems. Hell, we can even pipe some of the low grade stuff back down the wells to reduce the CO2 level. This is a good thing.

A combination of this tech and a reduction in our usage (changes in society and culture, increase in engine efficiencies etc) would be ideal in the short - medium term. You are still left with the problem of local pollution though; cities will still smell of exhaust fumes no matter where the oil comes from. That is something to work on in the long term, perhaps an oil - H2 conversion and fuel cell cars? Who knows.

As a side note, I love listening to all you Americans complaining about how much you pay for gas. I saw unleaded at £1.31 / L yesterday, or about US$7.92 / Gallon... Bet you wouldn't drive so many SUV's with those prices!
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post #86 of 801
I'll finally have the money to burn the tire stack in my backyard... all i needed was gas.
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post #87 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skripka View Post
Dude. Even a high-end expensive solar panel is only about 15-20% efficient...At high-noon on the equator that means a 1 m^2 of solar panels pulls in around 100-200W of energy. To power my computer would take most of the roof of my house....and I don't live on the equator-and high noon only happens once per day. See the problem?
Solar has already been proven ( via a source/thread on OCN ) to be cheaper than nuclear. Solar has a high UP FRONT cost that you more than earn back throughout the years.

People keep repeating that old stuff about solar being expensive. Solar is about $30k for a 2000kw/h system and that's not just the panels, that's the installation and electrical wiring upgrades needed.

2001kw/hrs cost me $300 exactly and I'm covered by SMUD, which is one of the CHEAPEST utility companies in the NATION. They're so cheap that the city of Davis almost incorporated itself into Sacramento county JUST so it could use SMUD instead of PG&E.

My Tier 1 usage is up to 700kw/hr and costs $.09, Tier 2 is 701 kw/h - 1000 kw/h and costs $.157, Tier 3 is 1001 kw/h and up and costs $.175. My average bill is around $200 and I have a relatively modest 1200sq ft, 3 bd 2 bth home with no pool.

So 12 months x $200 = $2,400 per year. $30k/$2.4k = 12.5 yrs paid off

12.5 yrs of payments to have a system that will last you +30 yrs AND will be much cheaper to load new panels on......


So can we stop saying solar is expensive now?
Edited by FuNkDrSpOt - 1/18/11 at 11:22am
    
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post #88 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirmie View Post
Catalytic Converter

Read it for the info on how we deal with a lot of those issues and what some of those issues are.
A cat still isn't perfect though. Take a smog test and you'll see that those gases still pass the cat.
    
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post #89 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuNkDrSpOt View Post

2001kw/hrs cost me $300 exactly and I'm covered by SMUD, which is one of the CHEAPEST utility companies in the NATION.
What?

My last electric bill was 2,583kWhr last month (11/22/10-12/22/10). And cost me $136.52+taxes/fees=154.01. This is for electric heat-pump heating, in addition to normal household.

What was that about cheapest in the nation?

BTW-my post you quoted said NOTHING about cost. It was about inefficiency and land usage.
Edited by Skripka - 1/18/11 at 11:25am
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post #90 of 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordikon View Post
Wow, if this is as good as it sounds (it rarely is), then the middle east can kiss our ***. It'd be great to have no dependence on foreign oil whatsoever. However, global warming activists won't be happy about this.



Good point, this will never see the light of day.
We can already be independent when it comes to oil. Alaska is full of it.

And you're right, big oil companies will not let this get into consumers hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
I don't see how an oil company could keep this quiet. It seems likethere would be an incredible amount of money to be made in reducing the cost of oil to the populous, and someone would be willing to run with it.

I'd burn my face off before I'd let an oil company stifle progress.
Do you have a face right now? They have been stifling progress for generations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairDoos View Post
So will cars perform the same or will they perform better? e.g. performance and economy?
Curious in this as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by funky882 View Post
How far away is this? i'm talking about when the gas prices start to fall everywhere.
You won't see gas prices go down ANY time soon. And if it does go down 10-50c a gallon a month later it will go up $0.50-$1 negating the small drop in price.

Gas prices will be over 4-5$ a gallon this summer, get ready.

Also, did anyone notice how this is a modified E. Coli? Last time I checked that's not something you want to come in contact with. Also, it eats carbon? Again last time I checked plants NEED carbon dioxide to live as it's part of photosynthesis. And without plants, there is no oxygen to survive for us.

Also, I'm not against this technology, but I do think it will never see the light of day other then a few news articles.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Technology and Science News › (UPDATE April 24th) [GM] Joule Creates Renewable Fossil Fuels At Unlimited Quantity.