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[RedmondPie] Apple Q1 2011 Results - Page 2

post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
They design their own products.
They build it with their own custom processors (in the case of iPads/iPods).
They integrate their own OS with their devices.
They sell their own products.
They determine how their products are used, as well as (for the most case) which/where the apps are downloaded.

If that isn't monopolistic, I don't know what is.
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Go take an economics class and come back before you make a fool of yourself.
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post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
They design their own products.
They build it with their own custom processors (in the case of iPads/iPods).
They integrate their own OS with their devices.
They sell their own products.
They determine how their products are used, as well as (for the most case) which/where the apps are downloaded.

If that isn't monopolistic, I don't know what is.



I'd like some of what you're smoking. Tight vertical integration does not equal a monopoly.

6B in profits for a single quarter... that's why 1/2 of the stocks I own are Apple derivative plays
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post #13 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by awaizy View Post
You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Go take an economics class and come back before you make a fool of yourself.
Wow. You picked the wrong comeback.

Here's a small economics lesson;

There are two types of integration (which result in monopolies if they are extensive) in economics;
-Horizontal
-Vertical

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know what I described is a prime case (and a textbook definition) of vertical integration.

Here's a basic definition from Wikipedia which will help you understand;

Quote:
In microeconomics and management, the term vertical integration describes a style of management control. Vertically integrated companies in a supply chain are united through a common owner. Usually each member of the supply chain produces a different product or (market-specific) service, and the products combine to satisfy a common need. It is contrasted with horizontal integration.
[...] A monopoly produced through vertical integration is called a vertical monopoly.
Btw, I'm minoring in Economics, so yes, I shall take a few more classes in that subject I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechtech View Post
I'd like some of what you're smoking. Tight vertical integration does not equal a monopoly.
Yes it does, it's called a vertical monopoly. It's just not limited (and punished) by laws (whereas horizontal monopolies are).

Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonducks45 View Post
its not a monopoly if there is a competitor and they have competitors in every product category except for the ipod touch.
Please read what I wrote above.
Edited by born2bwild - 1/18/11 at 8:50pm
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post #14 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
They design their own products.
They build it with their own custom processors (in the case of iPads/iPods).
They integrate their own OS with their devices.
They sell their own products.
They determine how their products are used, as well as (for the most case) which/where the apps are downloaded.

If that isn't monopolistic, I don't know what is.
Lol, so Microsoft can't sell it's own products, or there a monopoly? A monopoly occurs when a company is in a market where there are no competitors.
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupaSupra View Post
Lol, so Microsoft can't sell it's own products, or there a monopoly? A monopoly occurs when a company is in a market where there are no competitors.
Please read this.

You are certainly correct. But only partially. There are two types of monopolies: vertical and horizontal.

Apple is a vertical monopoly. Whereas, Microsoft and Intel are near-horizontal monopolies.
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post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
Wow. You picked the wrong comeback.

Here's a small economics lesson;

There are two types of integration (which result in monopolies if they are extensive) in economics;
-Horizontal
-Vertical

If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know what I described is a prime case (and a textbook definition) of vertical integration.

Here's a basic definition from Wikipedia which will help you understand;



Btw, I'm minoring in Economics, so yes, I shall take a few more classes in that subject I believe.



Yes it does, it's called a vertical monopoly. It's just not limited (and punished) by laws (whereas horizontal integration is).



Please read what I wrote above.
but no product requires you to use another. if you buy an iphone you have to connect it to itunes for activation (once) then you never have to connect it again except for updates though i am sure you could take it to apple/at&t/verizon and they could activate/update(maybe) it for you if you do not have a mac/windows.
Edited by oregonducks45 - 1/18/11 at 9:04pm
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post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonducks45 View Post
but no product requires you to use another. if you buy an iphone you have to connect it to itunes for activation (once) then you never have to connect it again except for updates though i am sure you could take it to appel/at&t/verizon and they could activate/update(maybe) it for you if you do not have a mac/windows.
I never said they did require you to buy other products. I was simply stating that the way Apple designs/builds/sells its devices make the company a vertical monopoly.

And then, I was suddenly attacked by a mass of people claiming that I was misinformed (and quite rudely) and so I had to correct them.
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post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild View Post
I never said they did require you to buy other products. I was simply stating that the way Apple designs/builds/sells its devices make the company a vertical monopoly.
they hire other companies to mass produce their products...
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post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonducks45 View Post
they hire other companies to mass produce their products...
Well they do design the products, put their own custom processors, integrate their own OS and sell them in specific locations with their own pricing. That is enough to make any company a vertical monopoly.
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post #20 of 27
Quote:
Say I want to use OSX, but I don't want to buy one of their overpriced POS laptops (just my opinion, I know I am in the minority). I cannot purchase my own hardware and just use OSX as the OS without doing some BS hacks to get it to work right. Why? If Microsoft can design an OS that can run 1000's of different hardware configurations, why can't Apple?
There's a myriad of reasons. For one, tighter integration of drivers and hardware = less problems=less tech support costs. For two, they allowed "clones" back in the 90's and the result was terrible, damn near putting Apple out of business. OF course, you and every other anti-apple fanatic out there has no recollection of this.

Quote:
The answer, IMHO, is because they want your money for every step of the production process. They want the money for the hardware, the software, the peripherals, the music downloads, everything. Then dress it up in a pretty package and sell it to the masses at an inflated price.
And that's just your "humble opinion," even though you're completely off-base.

Quote:
Apple is fully capable of designing software that can run on different configurations, they just don't because they realize that they are controling every step of the production process and people are still lining up in droves to buy their crap. They claim to do this to make the product simpler to use but in reality they are doing it to line their pockets and corner the market.
More drivel. You don't HAVE to use ANY of their products. If you chose to, great, if not, fine. You DO realize that they have products for Windows. They COULD have kept iTunes to OS X, and THEN people would have been forced to buy a Mac to have a compatible way of integrating their MP3 player with their computer. But they didn't. They made a Windows version.

If you don't want to have to use iTunes, then get a different MP3 player or use your iPod in Disk mode to manually manage your library.

Quote:
That is why I will never own an Apple Product. If I buy a phone and want to jailbreak it to run on a different carrier, why can't I? Its my product, its not like I am buying a software license.
actually, when you buy an iPhone, you certainly ARE buying a software license (for iOS).

Quote:
Maybe I am misinformed and biased, but I believe most of what I said is accurate. In the long run, all this is going to do is stifle innovation and hurt the industry.
Stifle innovation? Apple has been one of the largest influences of technology in the last 30 years. How the hell can they stifle innovation when every product they release paves the way for every other MFG to get in on the action? No one wanted a tablet before the iPad. And now, damn near every manufacturer has a tablet to offer.

Competition is good. When others make products that trump Apple's, it is a GOOD thing. That forces Apple to step up it's game and make something better, which in turn, does so for other MFG's as well.

Apple makes SOME great products. We need them in the industry to push innovation, not necessarily in hardware, but most definitely in software.
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