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[PhysOrg]Italian scientists claim to have demonstrated Cold Fusion - Page 5

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptedvick View Post
We have no proof to prove them wrong so ... until that is done and their device is properly examined, I can't take the liberty to call it a scam/fake/whatever.
However, the burden of proof is on the scientists. Everyone is allowed to question their work and it is their responsibility to defend it.


“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -Carl Sagan
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post #42 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
Fusing "the most common isotope of Nickel" (58Ni) with non-deuterium hydrogen (H) would make 59CU... which would immediately decay via positron emission to 59Ni, which has a half life of >70,000 years, ie. short enough to generate considerable radioactivity, and long enough to be awkward to store.

Why are there no radioactive byproducts? Because there's no fusion going on.
Awkward how there are radioactive byproducts...
RTFP
"Rossi and Focardi explain that the reaction produces radiation, providing evidence that the reaction is indeed a nuclear reaction and does not work by some other method. They note that no radiation escapes due to lead shielding, and no radioactivity is left in the cell after it is turned off, so there is no nuclear waste."
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post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porthios View Post
Why? Because they haven't pulled a theory out their asses that explains how the "fusion" process works?

If you think real hard, I'm sure you can think of many occasions throughout technological history where scientists serendipitously came upon discoveries/inventions that they could not explain--or that they explained incorrectly. Instead, at the time, the things just worked because... they just worked.

If a scientist is able to step back and honestly say "I just don't know how this works," then I'm more likely to trust them than someone else who pulls a theory out of the air in order to appease the editors of journals.
Nobody pulls a theory out of thin air. A theory, by definition, is something that is supported by lots of evidence and contradicted by nothing. A hypothesis is a guess.

The general public abuses the word theory in place of hypothesis. However, when talking about science the word theory has a very specific meaning.

A theory is a hypothesis that has stood up to scrutiny many many times and never been refuted.
    
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post #44 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.†-Carl Sagan
One of my favorite quotes.
    
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post #45 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.” -Carl Sagan
One of my favorite quotes. We need more Carl Sagan people in the world.
    
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post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
They claim it works but they can't explain how? ....hmmmm...
This is actually more common than you would think. In alot of my papers, we don't understand the role of a reagent but we show the affects on the reaction both with and without it. Thus mechanistically we are deficent, but the proof is still there.


This article on the other hand is a complete joke and the proof is just a few posts above me. It was rejected by peer-reviewed journals and they are only able to publish on their own made up website/journal.

Though it is true that sometimes groundbreaking work is overlooked like in the case of the Michaelis-Menten kinetics paper publishing fiasco, I really don't think this is the case. Show the simple proof of power in and power out and I will listen.
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post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdolphin View Post
Awkward how there are radioactive byproducts...
RTFP
"Rossi and Focardi explain that the reaction produces radiation, providing evidence that the reaction is indeed a nuclear reaction and does not work by some other method. They note that no radiation escapes due to lead shielding, and no radioactivity is left in the cell after it is turned off, so there is no nuclear waste."
Learn to read.

If they were successfully fusing 58Ni and H then there would be radioactive 59Ni left in the cell, plus gamma radiation and positrons (which would be absorbed by the lead shielding). And there would be little or no copper, since 59Cu has a half life of 18 seconds.

They claim that there is copper left in the cell (there shouldn't be) and that there is no radioactivity (there should be).
Edited by Phaedrus2129 - 1/21/11 at 2:32pm
post #48 of 68
Theory this, theory that, whatever, plug it in and see if it works.
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post #49 of 68
Balogna is a place? Cool!
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post #50 of 68
Sounds just like that crackpot that claimed to have invented a cell that converts water to electricity with zero input energy and zero catalyst.

I remain skeptical. Any scientist that has truly made a breakthrough like this would absolutely not present it the way they did. Definitely not in an announcement at a press conference, before allowing their practices to be confirmed by the scientific community.
    
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