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[PhysOrg]Italian scientists claim to have demonstrated Cold Fusion - Page 6

post #51 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowblind View Post
I've never read a more sketchy article. I am extremely skeptical. In the exceedingly off chance this is legit, yay?
http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physic...ardi_paper.pdf

Apparently there is a paper, but they cannot explain or know exactly how cold fusion works.

If this is indeed legit, and they can find out how it works, they deserve massive credit, and have solved many of the world's problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Sounds just like that crackpot that claimed to have invented a cell that converts water to electricity with zero input energy and zero catalyst.
Learn to read: "Rossi and Focardi say that, when the atomic nuclei of nickel and hydrogen are fused in their reactor, the reaction produces copper and a large amount of energy. The reactor uses less than 1 gram of hydrogen and starts with about 1,000 W of electricity, which is reduced to 400 W after a few minutes. Every minute, the reaction can convert 292 grams of 20°C water into dry steam at about 101°C. Since raising the temperature of water by 80°C and converting it to steam requires about 12,400 W of power, the experiment provides a power gain of 12,400/400 = 31. As for costs, the scientists estimate that electricity can be generated at a cost of less than 1 cent/kWh, which is significantly less than coal or natural gas plants."

There is no catalyst in this reaction, it is nuclear and does not need it. And it does have input energy.
Edited by ArchLinuxFTW - 1/21/11 at 3:36pm
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post #52 of 68
He's claimed the same thing before, just another loon
 
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post #53 of 68
It's quite simply a hoax. You cannot simply exert 400W of energy on a hydrogen cloud with a hunk of nickel metal in it and expect fusion to occur, with no radioactive byproducts. Another reason to be skeptical: they claim lead shielding is adequate. While this particular reaction may not emit neutrons, water-shielding seems the only ethical way to display such a reaction.

Also, everyone who knows anything knows you can't build an arc reactor without palladium. At least until we get vibranium.
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post #54 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchLinuxFTW View Post
Learn to read: "Rossi and Focardi say that, when the atomic nuclei of nickel and hydrogen are fused in their reactor, the reaction produces copper and a large amount of energy. The reactor uses less than 1 gram of hydrogen and starts with about 1,000 W of electricity, which is reduced to 400 W after a few minutes. Every minute, the reaction can convert 292 grams of 20°C water into dry steam at about 101°C. Since raising the temperature of water by 80°C and converting it to steam requires about 12,400 W of power, the experiment provides a power gain of 12,400/400 = 31. As for costs, the scientists estimate that electricity can be generated at a cost of less than 1 cent/kWh, which is significantly less than coal or natural gas plants."

There is no catalyst in this reaction, it is nuclear and does not need it. And it does have input energy.
You're the one that needs to learn to read, buddy. I didn't say that THESE researchers didn't use or need a catalyst for their supposed cold fusion--I stated that the whole scenario--their piss-poor description of how their experiment apparently works--is much like the crackpot from a few years ago that claimed to get electricity out of water without any inputs, and didn't provide any proof of their work--and has subsequently vanished from the scientific community because...their assertions were bogus.

You are a moron. Good job not understanding my post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChickenInferno View Post
This is actually more common than you would think. In alot of my papers, we don't understand the role of a reagent but we show the affects on the reaction both with and without it. Thus mechanistically we are deficent, but the proof is still there.


This article on the other hand is a complete joke and the proof is just a few posts above me. It was rejected by peer-reviewed journals and they are only able to publish on their own made up website/journal.

Though it is true that sometimes groundbreaking work is overlooked like in the case of the Michaelis-Menten kinetics paper publishing fiasco, I really don't think this is the case. Show the simple proof of power in and power out and I will listen.
Well, but the thing is--even if you don't understand the role of a reagent in some chemical reaction/mechanism, you can usually find someone who can--molecular dynamics, quantum mechanics, some computational simulation method that can explain it--these people cannot offer such theory, and also do not give information on how to verify their claims. Which makes them bogus, for the most part.
    
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post #55 of 68
Other than the fact that Bologna was mentioned in this article I've just gotta laugh that they held a private press conference. Any scientist that wasn't doing some serious trolling would want every possible press agency present at that conference to bask in the glory of discovering a working cold fusion device.
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post #56 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptedvick View Post
We have no proof to prove them wrong so ... until that is done and their device is properly examined, I can't take the liberty to call it a scam/fake/whatever.
Christian logic. The onus of proof is on the one who changes the default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPreston View Post
Balogna is a place? Cool!
Champagne is also a place.
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post #57 of 68
It is likely that I am the only person viewing this forum who has built a cold-fusion reactor and fortunately I have to say if it sounds to good to be true it usually is. Sorry guys but my bet is this is the last we ever hear of these guys
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post #58 of 68
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Win == True View Post
It is likely that I am the only person viewing this forum who has built a cold-fusion reactor and fortunately I have to say if it sounds to good to be true it usually is. Sorry guys but my bet is this is the last we ever hear of these guys
You're telling us you built a working, power producing cold fusion reactor?
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post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by T3h_Ch33z_Muncha View Post
You're telling us you built a working, power producing cold fusion reactor?
I've got 20 of them powering my microwave right now. Mmm Hot Pocket.
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post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
Well, but the thing is--even if you don't understand the role of a reagent in some chemical reaction/mechanism, you can usually find someone who can--molecular dynamics, quantum mechanics, some computational simulation method that can explain it--these people cannot offer such theory, and also do not give information on how to verify their claims. Which makes them bogus, for the most part.
A good example of this in my research is explaining the role of ammonium sulfate. We wash our samples 3x with water and thus due to the extreme solubility of both ions, we shouldn't theoretically have any left in our precursors. However when we fail to add ammonium sulfate, we find different end-products. Theoretically, we shouldn't have any left, but realistically it's still there and it's somehow catalyzing a high-aspect ratio growth via an unknown mechanism. The only mechanism we can think of is that is somehow stopping growth on the polar faces of the crystal structure by simply "capping" them. Hence, this is really an issue where we're not quite sure how to verify our theory besides the essential fact that with it we see high-aspect ratio and without it we see spherical particles. The theory is there but no way to verify a mechanism as of yet.

These people as alluded to before are hogwash. What I would really like to see is someway to show how much power they are putting into their system and actually see a power reading (pressure from steam or something like this) to just show that 400W in and 12000W out. Let them explain it over several years but show us this proof first.
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