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Setting up my Loop, fans, and mounting

post #1 of 7
Thread Starter 
So I have 2 GPUs and 1 CPU to Cool, when a P67 Board block releases I will add that. I am looking for the absolute lowest temps I can get. I have already selected the parts, Im just doing some fine tuning to my cart before I pull the trigger.

Now I could go with a Dual Loop and 2 MCP355 or a Single Loop with a MCP655.

I am wondering the best way to set it up.
Option A Pump/Res(A)>GTX360>EK Supreme HF>PumpRes(A)
Pump/Res(B)>GTX240>FC5870(A)>FC5870(B)>PumpRes(B)

Option B Pump/Res(A)>GTX240>EK Supreme HF>PumpRes(A)
Pump/Res(B)>GTX360>FC5870(A)>FC5870(B)>PumpRes(B)

Option C MCP655>Res>GTX360>EKSupremeHF>GTX240>FC5870(A)>FC5 870(B)>Res>MCP655

Option D MCP655>Res>GTX240>EKSupremeHF>GTX360>FC5870(A)>FC5 870(B)>Res>MCP655

For fans my question is this I know that fans with High Static pressure are needed for push but what about pull. Wouldn't a fan with a high CFM work better?

I plan on using Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000rpms, but wonder if a better performing fan can be purchased. Max I will pay is $20 a pop. Please note Im a Crew Chief and work the flight line, you ain't heard noise till you see B-1's take-off. They are so loud the ground trembles, and the buildings rattle.


Last Question. I have seen people mod the bottom of their 800D/700D cases so gtx240 pulls air up through the rad. You can't do push/pull in this config though. What if I cut grills on both side panels and do push/pull mounting the rad to the back side panel?

I know it means unscrewing the fans from the Side Panel just to take the panel off but I can live with that.
Edited by BeerPowered - 1/20/11 at 11:30pm
post #2 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post
So I have 2 GPUs and 1 CPU to Cool, when a P67 Board block releases I will add that. I am looking for the absolute lowest temps I can get. I have already selected the parts, Im just doing some fine tuning to my cart before I pull the trigger.

Now I could go with a Dual Loop and 2 MCP355 or a Single Loop with a MCP655.

I am wondering the best way to set it up.
Option A Pump/Res(A)>GTX360>EK Supreme HF>PumpRes(A)
Pump/Res(B)>GTX240>FC5870(A)>FC5870(B)>PumpRes(B)

Option B Pump/Res(A)>GTX240>EK Supreme HF>PumpRes(A)
Pump/Res(B)>GTX360>FC5870(A)>FC5870(B)>PumpRes(B)

Option C MCP655>Res>GTX360>EKSupremeHF>GTX240>FC5870(A)>FC5 870(B)>Res>MCP655

Option D MCP655>Res>GTX240>EKSupremeHF>GTX360>FC5870(A)>FC5 870(B)>Res>MCP655

For fans my question is this I know that fans with High Static pressure are needed for push but what about pull. Wouldn't a fan with a high CFM work better?

I plan on using Scythe Ultra Kaze 3000rpms, but wonder if a better performing fan can be purchased. Max I will pay is $20 a pop. Please note Im a Crew Chief and work the flight line, you ain't heard noise till you see B-1's take-off. They are so loud the ground trembles, and the buildings rattle.


Last Question. I have seen people mod the bottom of their 800D/700D cases so gtx240 pulls air up through the rad. You can't do push/pull in this config though. What if I cut grills on both side panels and do push/pull mounting the rad to the back side panel?

I know it means unscrewing the fans from the Side Panel just to take the panel off but I can live with that.
Go with a single loop, and a single 355 + xspc top. Dual loop is never beneficial. Single loop allows you to maximize your rads.

If you want the best possible fans on your GTX360s, go with some San Ace 109R1212H1011 fans. They have superior static pressure and undervolt extremely well. You can find them for $22. You can also go with some high speed Panaflos which will be around $18. Both fans have a huge amount of static pressure, and are suited for high fin density rads such as the HWlabs GTX series.

For loop order, go res>pump>GTX360>cpu>GTX240>gpu1>gpu2 (you can switch the 360 for the 240. it really won't make a difference which rad goes before the cpu and which goes before the gpus. your temps will even out either way).
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beast
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post #3 of 7
I say Option C but your res should be in front of the pump.
post #4 of 7
Probably going to get blasted for this... but if you looking for the best possible temps the rads should be out of the case, with shrouds, in a push/pull configuration. Any and all restrictions are to be avoided both in the loop(s) and in the airflow over the rads. More so for the cpu than gpus. In any case putting the cpu block closer to the pump outlet will result in a higher pressure (for plate selection if your block has one), high flows are harder to get, and flow, like amperage in a circuit, due to being closed loop the more **** in the loop, the lower the flow. This can be tricky if you are interested in using parallel setups.

Rad selection, maybe base it on the speed of fans you want to use, the higher the fin count per (insert your unit of measure here) the more pressure you will need to clear the tighter fin spacing, something like the xspc rx series are real good if you fan speeds are low, moving into the GTX and compariables for high flow. Again, however, putting lots of high end fans on a xspc rx seems to yield diminished returns... probably due to some laminar flow making for a poorer conductive transmission between surface to air.

CFM is a good way to "rate" a fan, but large fans have lots of CFM, and do not make all that much pressure in relation to the blade dimension. (Case in point a Yate Loon 140 performs poor in comparison to YL 120) Pressure than is a matter of compression, compressing air molecules, even just a little gives more air in a given volumn for the Cu fins to transmit through contact heat per air molecule.

The compromise is turbulance to pressure to cfm, turbulance offers a greater amount of molecule per unit time to roll around in contact with the surfaces, which aid in conducting. Turbulance though, trashes flow... and there we go again. Turbulant fan setups make noise... thats real subjective, compared to the airport, its nothing, but when your newborn is sleeping 5 ft away and you have a headset on (set to quiet) it could be a big deal.

Like anything there are some limits and compromises, just like a turbine engine, or an a/c system compression also "heats up" the surrounding area. (mind you in pc cooling, we dont get anywhere near these numbers).

The difference between a really good setup and a not so really good setup, maybe .5c -> 2c in real world temps... hardly enough to make or break a good OC or bench. So aestetics and price could also play a hand here as well in your selections.
 
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Yukikaze
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post #5 of 7
Thread Starter 
What is undervolting fans exactly? So its agreed Single loop is the way to go. Good to know. The 355 is powerful enough for this? I have no problems getting the 655 or 35X money isn't an issue there.
post #6 of 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerPowered View Post
What is undervolting fans exactly? So its agreed Single loop is the way to go. Good to know. The 355 is powerful enough for this? I have no problems getting the 655 or 35X money isn't an issue there.
Most pc fans are run off a 12v dc service, undervolting typically utilizes some type of variable resistor, sometimes a fan controller with a reostat to induce a resistance in line with the load, thus good ole ohms law states,

v=ra

12v=(var resistance)(amperage), as resistance is increased amperage must decrease given 12v, so current is lower, fan runs slower...

this method is most typical on the cheap...

some controllers will change the voltage on the line itself, using linear voltage regulation, normally in some kind of fixed range across some kind of little transformer packs, with like dunno, 3 or 4 positions

others, probably the most common to most pcs, is the pwm or pulse width modulation, the 4 pin mobo connector that most modern oem cooling solutions use, by using a pulse instead of a constant voltage the speed of a fan can be bumped quickly, like a 4 banger car with 4 pulses per cycle, or like a v-2 motorcycle, bumped twice... voltage is always 12v but the on/off is modulated rather than the half duplex sin wave of straight DC.

different fans respond better (or less adversely) to different methods...

355 is a strong contender, but Ive never seen one in a system that wasnt modified with a top... so theres that to consider. Some folks use more than 1 in a single loop to boost trouble spots that are really restrictive... hard to say. Really depends what you want your Delta T to be.

Good place to start is http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
here, subtract out the 34, calculate your cpu at 90, your vid cards, high performance pc setting, and nothing else... whatever number that is, is your target wattage to shed, add 15-18 watt per pump... and start rad shopping... This will give you the wattage, which you can use to figure out what delta's you want, and how much rad power you will need to achieve it... Like most the review sites, I sorta see delta's having 3 flavors... 2c awesome, 5c really great, 10c overloaded/under-radded, and try to figure where your going to be in that line up.
 
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Yukikaze
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post #7 of 7
For the pump I would get the MCP35X. It is the strongest pump currently available and it has PWM control, which is awesome. For the fans I would get some San Ace PWM fans, as they are really awesome for the GTX radiators you'll be getting.

With this PWM pump and PWM fans I would wire them all up to the header on your motherboard using a special connector. That way the power for all of these devices will be drawn directly from the powersupply while the PWM signal will come from the motherboard. Using this you will be able to regulate the fans and pump automatically depending on CPU load.

As far as radiators go I would put a GTX 240 radiator sideways in the bottom as you said and a 480 radiator in the top.
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Labor of Love
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