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Question regarding pump/temp

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hi all,

The water T°C in my loop takes a max of 7/8 degrees before stabilizing.

As I use quite a big res rad (car heating), I was wondering that if I get a more powerfulf pump, would this delta decrease?
Edited by skmanu - 1/21/11 at 4:27am
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post #2 of 11
The reservoir is from a car or the radiator is from a car?
 
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post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
sorry, the rad
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post #4 of 11
What does it look like, a heater core, or an a/c evaporator core (has the copper U bends on either end)?
 
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post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
It looks like that:
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post #6 of 11
Evaporator cores, hmm, how handy are you with sheet metal work? Maybe thing about doing a custom shroud for push, and going with some monster delta fans. You need lots of pressure to clear that fin spacing, maybe even a boost pump to push your water through the thing harder right at the inlet.
 
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post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks Soggysilico, that's what I thought for the pump...

Do you think that getting a 2400l/hr and 3.8m waterheight pump would help?

For the airflow, I've 2X2 12 cms fans push/pull, and there is no gap between the rad and the fans. I think it is OK.

EDIT: the pump I use now is 900l/hr and 1.8m

Edited by skmanu - 1/21/11 at 6:51am
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post #8 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by skmanu View Post
Thanks Soggysilico, that's what I thought for the pump...

Do you think that getting a 2400l/hr and 3.8m waterheight pump would help?

For the airflow, I've 2X2 12 cms fans push/pull, and there is no gap between the rad and the fans. I think it is OK.

EDIT: the pump I use now is 900l/hr and 1.8m
I got to thinking about it, and then I remembered that one of the design differences between the a/c evaporators and the rads built today are the Cu tubing design. The evaps use rounded tubing, while the newer rads seem to have switched over the the square tubing design. One of the biggest reasons for this was that it is easier to weld the fins to the tube so more fin to tube contact area. (Effectively, more surface area to conduct from) The other reason was that if we draw a circle, and were to color in the area inside that circle, that colored in area represents the water/heat, the circle tends to cool radially around the circle, but never "quite" gets to the center of the tube, where as, the square tube tends to bite off some of the hot spot, always a trade off, square tubing bends are really restrictive, so i "think" most the rads have square tubing running their lengths with rounded tubing makes corners...

All in all, the newer rad designs tend to be more efficient, especially with low pressure fans and low psi pumps... (and most pc fans, even deltas are pretty low compared to industrial or automotive setups, and all these small centrifugal pumps just dont make much in the way of pressures)

Most evaporator rads I have worked on were for freon based systems, with big monster fans and pretty big pumps/belt driven compressor rigs. Most those setups make somewhere around 100-150 psi in the evaporator, compare that to a mcp355 which makes 8 psi out the outlet.

I think anything you can do to jump the pressure and water flow rate through your rad with making more pressure air wise will result in temp losses (gains in this case) with every step you take.

Not sure about that pump, but may be worth your time to figure out how much wattage its going to be putting into the water, hate to add something that hurts more than it helps. If you drive it twice as hard (good thing) with a pump that dumps 3x more heat (bad thing) than its almost as good as not doing anything at all. Food for thought.
 
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post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your time and the clarity of your explaination.

The pump I am looking at is 40W external, which means, I believe, that some of the heat will be dissipated in the air and not in the res (correct me if I am wrong).

The one I use now is 20W, but inside the res.

I guess the gain would be important: 2.5xflow and 60 cms extra water height...

I was also thinking moving the rad horizontally at the same height as the pump (to reduce height of water to move), as the case would be ventilated more or less the same way. Do you think that would help?
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post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by skmanu View Post
Thanks for your time and the clarity of your explaination.

The pump I am looking at is 40W external, which means, I believe, that some of the heat will be dissipated in the air and not in the res (correct me if I am wrong).

The one I use now is 20W, but inside the res.

I guess the gain would be important: 2.5xflow and 60 cms extra water height...

I was also thinking moving the rad horizontally at the same height as the pump (to reduce height of water to move), as the case would be ventilated more or less the same way. Do you think that would help?
If it makes 40, it surely does not mean it puts 40 out to the water, like you said a big chunk of that is going to be air dissapaited locally around the pump, tossing some sort of ventalation around the pump will help that... gotta figure its 40, so if you can get 30 out in the air around the pump, then you only have 10 going into the water, which is great. The hotter the pump gets during the duty cycle, the more the water it is in contact with will draw the heat into it through exchange. So when cold, it puts not all that much into the water, but once the pump gets temp/heat soaks, the more will hit the water.

I want to say I read somewhere as to a fish tank pump that was popular for a short amount of time, that started killing fish as the pump heated up, it raised the temps of the water, and thus, the fish could no longer tolerate the added heat.

Do you have a flow meter? I wonder what your inlet/outlet rad psi's are right now... I suspect its a pretty mean hit in the rad, not sure, but the rad is probably rated for a good deal of bar, but your blocks may not be, probably want to check that as you go up in pressure.

So flows, but also temps, water temp going in and water temp coming out, would tell us a lot about the exchange power of the rad.

Could always guestimate it, you know the pump pressure, so connect the rad, and have have the outlet of the rad dump into a graduated (marked) container and time it. Its a cheap and dirty way to figure it, atleast enough to compare pump power to a flow per minute.

Probably rig something up similar, fill the thing with heated water (something known), fit a thermometer to it, and rig some fans to it, and graph how long it takes to cool the water off. Try a couple different fan configs, and before too long some sorta picture should form as to the best way to rig it.

Not sure if orientation will make that much difference once you pressurize it with some flow, pressure should be felt the same in every direction once its bled, again one of the advantages in high psi systems with rounded tubing, it bears the pressure equally rather than concentrating forces in the material.

Could always pelt the thing?
 
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