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[Kotaku] A Nintendo Argument Against Achievements - Page 6

post #51 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzO View Post
I've always thought of achievements as developer's excuse and inability to create a game with enough content that focuses on the core gameplay but instead uses achievements as a "filler" when they lack ideas.

Ultimately, achievements are for dumb people who have nothing better to do.

Gone are the days when someone can create a game out of their own garage and compete with other people based on how fun and popular their game is. Everything is about $$$ and the result of that are boring games, unless you're Microsoft and have a ton of money for R&D.
Sorry for being dumb when I beat a game you know. My apologies.
EDIT:
If you think that achievements are for dumb people, then I guess you've never accomplished anything in your life then because it's the exact same thing essentially. The ding/pop sound for achievements gives the player (if they care) the acknowledgment that they've accomplished something such as beating the game. If that's dumb, then you've never accomplished anything that you felt was worth your time. I feel sad for you in that case. Why are you even posting a video game thread if you think beating a game for example is dumb?
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 1/21/11 at 4:53pm
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post #52 of 141
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Who says you need to play anything for achievements? They're completely optional and aren't required at all.

People, including myself again, find playing for achievements is fun. You're using the phrase achieved like it's a competition: again it's not about the brag, or the points, it's about playing the game and fullfulling the challenges created by the developer imo.
Sometimes, when completely these challenges, you get extra stuff for it too which is all the more better.

Alot of people do use achievements for competition which can be fun for them. No one has the right to say it isn't. You're not them. It's an opinion.

When Nintendo says it's a mythical reward: that's just idiocy. The reward is more value out of a game, and if you're that type - fun as well. Nothing mythical about it.

What's the point of collecting all the pokemon in pokemon? Absolutely nothing. It's a challenge setup by the developers.
Achievements are just a way to keep track of the challenges, and thus recognition for it if that's you're kind of thing.
I think the argument here is that the achievements detract from the game. Don't get me wrong. Remember that in my first/original post, I wrote that I played StarCraft II and got addicted to it's achievements.

When you play a game and start caring more about the achievements than playing the actual game, it just becomes repetitive and drone-like. Take, for example, StarCraft II's "Win XXXX games as Protoss". If you're the type of player who plays only to get achievements (which, I believe, is the type of people we're talking about right now), you'd essentially be playing game after game until you've reached said number of wins JUST to get that achievement. Of course, the argument can be made that, as you're playing, you become a better Protoss player, but that's beside the point. The point is that you didn't play INTENDING to become a better 'toss player and get the achievement as a result. The point is that you did play INTENDING to get the achievement (and perhaps became a better 'toss player in the process).
 
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post #53 of 141
Zelda was and always will be my favourite game of all time. Specifically Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask.

However, I do think achievements affect the way people play games. On the other hand, they give you something to work towards, which gives the game a higher entertainment value. This is just my opinion.
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post #54 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by onoz View Post
I think the argument here is that the achievements detract from the game. Don't get me wrong. Remember that in my first/original post, I wrote that I played StarCraft II and got addicted to it's achievements.

When you play a game and start caring more about the achievements than playing the actual game, it just becomes repetitive and drone-like. Take, for example, StarCraft II's "Win XXXX games as Protoss". If you're the type of player who plays only to get achievements (which, I believe, is the type of people we're talking about right now), you'd essentially be playing game after game until you've reached said number of wins JUST to get that achievement. Of course, the argument can be made that, as you're playing, you become a better Protoss player, but that's beside the point. The point is that you didn't play INTENDING to become a better 'toss player and get the achievement as a result. The point is that you did play INTENDING to get the achievement (and perhaps became a better 'toss player in the process).
That's if you take achievements the wrong way. Achievements were never meant to be the primary goal of the game. Achievements are a secondary goal, hence why they're optional. You don't have to care for achievements.

Just play the game you want to play it, and in fact just by doing that - you'll get achievements 99% of the time (unless it's a game like Lost Planet 2 holy crap that's just stupidity)
I played Little Big Planet 2 over the past week with no intention of getting trophies until after all said is done. Well, now all said is done and I've unlocked about 40% of the achievements in the game just by playing it normally. I think I can knab about another 20-30% just by continue to play as usual. The rest I'll need to go out of my way for if I want to bother getting them, but some of them are challenges that I know I might not be capable of doing (ie getting through every level without dieing). I'm not that good at platformers.
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post #55 of 141
I for one hate achivements they ruin games for me. I like just farting around and playing through a game not spending 7 hours hunting for all the secret items that do nothing more than pop out an achievement. Then have all your friends go oh you didnt get that one... Its like who the heck cares its a video game.

I think it has ruined alot of games I have friends that will sit around for hours to try and get this one achivement. Its nuts, I mean they could be playing another great game or enjoying another playthrough of somthing, they will admit its no fun but they have to get that achievement.

I admit it sells games cause people want more of them and it adds another level to games that would otherwise be terrible. Your like I gotta beat this on hard but the game sucks but you play it for that achievement.

I could care less if they went away tomm but I am sure they are here to stay.
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post #56 of 141
Less achievements = better.

Some of them are based far too much on things like chance or blink luck (like getting an overkill/killing everyone on the map in Lone Wolf with an energy sword in Halo 3). Most are based on idiotic levels of simplicity (celebrate a TD in Madden '10). I think achievements should be achievements, not just regular happenstance. Like the zombie genocide in either L4D or Dead Rising.

Achievements should be either completely vast in scope (so you work your ass off and feel rewarded at the end, like after killing 72000 zombies) or difficult, but not to the point of near unattainability (like the Halo 3 one).
post #57 of 141
Can't agree with Nintendo more.
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post #58 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
Sorry for being dumb when I beat a game you know. My apologies.
EDIT:
If you think that achievements are for dumb people, then I guess you've never accomplished anything in your life then because it's the exact same thing essentially. The ding/pop sound for achievements gives the player (if they care) the acknowledgment that they've accomplished something such as beating the game. If that's dumb, then you've never accomplished anything that you felt was worth your time. I feel sad for you in that case. Why are you even posting a video game thread if you think beating a game for example is dumb?
Do you know how to read?

Do you even know what the OP is talking about?

Do you know what achievements are? You seem very confused, here's the OP link in case you missed it the first time around.

Did you know "beating a game" means the game is over and is part of the game and not a achievement?

Some one's been dumbed down from playing too many achievements.

Oh, and can you kindly bold that part where I said "beating a game is dumb"? Oh? you can't because you made it up along with personal attacks to deflect you're own ignorance on the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
That's if you take achievements the wrong way. Achievements were never meant to be the primary goal of the game. Achievements are a secondary goal, hence why they're optional. You don't have to care for achievements.
You really should read the OP. Please, go read and come back.

What Nintendo is saying is that achievements are becoming the core part of the game and that's what we're discussing on this thread, if you haven't noticed.
Edited by AzO - 1/21/11 at 5:29pm
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post #59 of 141
Achievements certainly don't take away from the game.

When Xbox 360 first launched in 2005, achievements for the launch games were terrible. You would get 1000 achievement points just for beating the game; completing no side quests or doing things you wouldn't normally do.

Now, the developers have gotten a lot more clever with how they implement achievements that can potentially give the gamer a reason to beat the game a second or third time.

It all depends on implementation. Example: In Crysis, they could implement an achievement called "Baked Chicken" were you kill 50 Koreans by beating them to death with a flaming chicken. I may not have thought of that on my own.

Nintendo can keep their baseless philosophies as achievements are a great addition to games that has the potential to inspire creativity that one possibly would have never had. Would Nintendo rather not have achievements and NOT have the gamer give their game a second go-around? Again, they can keep their stupid philosophies.
Edited by BizzareRide - 1/21/11 at 5:36pm
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post #60 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
except playing an FPS (especially in terms of achievements and replayability) is nothing like a fighter game. A fighter game's round lasts only like 5 minutes and there is nothing to be achieved from playing them over.

An FPS campaign lasts about 8 hours, and it's multiplayer rounds last about 5 minutes as well but overall lasts about 40 hours to get all the content/ranks on average.
Brawl had a TON of modes. Back in '09's summer I beat the campaign on the hardest level, did TONS of group mode+ hitting some sack with a baseball bat a hell of a long way. Sure, BO has Zombies but it doesn't come close to all the stuff Brawl has.
    
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