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Maybe a Repost - but, Why Desktop Linux Sucks - Page 3

post #21 of 61
He has some good points. It does seem like Linux is moving in too many directions at once but in the end, I'd rather have that than something like Windows where everything moves in the same direction that you don't like.

Ubuntu is doing the same thing as Windows and it's a big part of the reason as to why I don't use Ubuntu anymore.
    
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post #22 of 61
Thread Starter 
I really like the video because as a Linux fan, it verbalized thoughts I always had. It does also illustrate why th current Linux distro's would be a nightmare for someone to put on an average end users desktop. While I am not huge on ubuntu, the ubuntu craze as of late is a good thing. As more people get on ubuntu and improve things like Gnome and build applications, all linux users will benefit.
post #23 of 61
The problem with a single binary standard across all distros is security. If Linux becomes too much like Windows with its .exe format, then people will be clicking on random Linux binaries and installing trojans. The way it is now, it is very hard for malware to attack Linux as a whole -- that is its package diversity has sort of a positive security side-effect.
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post #24 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiussat View Post
The problem with a single binary standard across all distros is security. If Linux becomes too much like Windows with its .exe format, then people will be clicking on random Linux binaries and installing trojans. The way it is now, it is very hard for malware to attack Linux as a whole -- that is its package diversity has sort of a positive security side-effect.
Package diversity can stay, I don't think that's the problem exactly, I think it's more so a strict rules on how the packages have to be maintained. Now he talked about a universal package, but I think what he wants more is a universal architecture for the distro. The better solution would be the ability to easily install rpm -> deb and vice versa. That would pose a better solution. They could even have slightly different locations, such as /opt/lib instead of /usr/lib and that wouldn't be too bad. It gets difficult when some distro's have a file in /lib, then a couple in /usr/lib, and then that's even split up into /usr/lib/folderX and /usr/lib/folderB for the same dang program. It should be /usr/lib/folderX! and then it's subfolders. This is what makes it hard to do rpm -> deb, deb -> rpm, ect.... They need to stick to the defaults. I know security is an issue but that can still be done and keep the same structure throughout.
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post #25 of 61
@mushroomboy: If you don't try to customize Slackware during the install it is among the easiest distros to setup. The only main weakness if you can call it that was the lack of certain enhanced hardware support things like having nvidia drivers given to you by default or having wifi cards taken care of by default. Outside of that I didn't notice to much in it that made it more difficult. Sure the untaring and make /install thing is different from having something take care of things for you but I kind of liked it.

@TFB: We need unified hardware support above anything else so I think we should not confine pure software choices. Only things related to hardware should be truly standardized but packages/programs need that freedom to compete and progress. I know he points to wasting time in making each package iteration but maybe joint ventures cross distro would be a good start. Say, one (or however many are needed) person per distro as the packager or so to spread it. Hell, maybe a tool to cross extract packages or cross convert them? (Feel free to tell me these aren't possible as I don't know).
     
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post #26 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie1337 View Post
@mushroomboy: If you don't try to customize Slackware during the install it is among the easiest distros to setup. The only main weakness if you can call it that was the lack of certain enhanced hardware support things like having nvidia drivers given to you by default or having wifi cards taken care of by default. Outside of that I didn't notice to much in it that made it more difficult. Sure the untaring and make /install thing is different from having something take care of things for you but I kind of liked it.
Right, base install and all that is fine. But I'm talking about advanced hardware setup, Nvidia drivers, and applications that don't have a slack package. What do you do with those? Considering Ubuntu/Debian have such a huge package base, users can get things with ease. Lets say I got Linux for Ardour? How do I go about setting up Ardour in Slackware, is it easier than Ubuntu Studio?

I mean, if the user hasn't herd about all these alternatives and he's got a person like enorbet2 pushing Slackware they might get overwhelmed. People don't like that, and so they will get put off by it. I'm not saying it's not easy now, but for a raw beginner it might be something they don't want. Heck, even I don't want to deal with it now. I've just recently tried 3 different slackware installers, a slax installer, and another slack based installer. All of them failed, giving me a non-responsive system. That pissed me off, a lot. I can't imagine a new user going into that, accidentally formatting everything, and then getting very angry. That's how stuff like Slackware/Gentoo go, you can't change that.

I don't even care if slackware changes, it really shouldn't as we need something advanced out there. I do think all the people who use a system for ever day casual purposes should use a larger distro. Yes learning on slackware is good, but having numbers in linux is even better. We need those user numbers to go up, and we need an easy way to count those numbers. If we start supporting stuff like the linux counters, install debian with it's statistics feedback, they can get better generated numbers. Those numbers will help us get our corporate backing and allow us to get the candy and treats we want. Metaphorically speaking, I don't want real candy.
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post #27 of 61
Is that the video about the guy who could not into setting up his overhead projector, and that hag who couldn't figure out why her nvidia blobs kept failing after a kernel upgrade?
Edited by Melcar - 1/22/11 at 2:15pm
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post #28 of 61
I too preferred Fedora but because I could devote a whole life learning the various distros, I preferred to stick to Ubuntu.

Some packages that interested me (eg Cinepaint) were not available in Fedora and compiling from source (I do not mean just with configure, make and install commands) was very difficult, if not impossible for my abilities.

Still, if a serious problem appears it is easier to fix it than it is the case with Windows. Eg I had to dig through the registry when a Windows Installer error occured. Not so with Ubuntu.

Whereas with Windows supposed ease of use I would have expected the opposite.

I mean, I changed motherboard, processor (from AMD to Intel) and graphics card and Ubuntu worked flawlessly. Try that combination on any Windows!
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post #29 of 61
As for the the whole universal package thing, I think what Arch does kind of defeats the need for that. The AUR completely eliminates the need for a universal package. It puts the packaging in the hands of the many rather than the few official maintainers, and if the software gets enough votes, then the official maintainers can pick it up. But if a software is at ALL desirable, I can guarantee to you that there is a PKGBUILD already located in the AUR for it.
post #30 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi View Post
As for the the whole universal package thing, I think what Arch does kind of defeats the need for that. The AUR completely eliminates the need for a universal package. It puts the packaging in the hands of the many rather than the few official maintainers, and if the software gets enough votes, then the official maintainers can pick it up. But if a software is at ALL desirable, I can guarantee to you that there is a PKGBUILD already located in the AUR for it.
Right, I have no problem with an AUR solution, especially since it can do dependency resolution. My problem with Arch was elsewhere.
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