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post #10411 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by ComradeNF View Post

They nerfed Zyra slightly in the August 6th mini-patch. Less range on that vine thing, and less damage on 2 of her attacks.

Yeah, the nerf kept her from being a constantly banned champ but did leave her as viable.
    
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post #10412 of 17789
Any champ is OP if played properly. I've seen some Zyra's destroy and some get destroyed. Same with Darius, Diana, etc.

That being said, I was doing some stat looking at from the reddit link provided by Mike-IRL. Rengar looks pretty on par with other tanks, so I'm thinking he is going to play similar to Volibear or Garen.

As far as his abilities go, his passive is a fair bit smaller than WW's ult, his Q's AS boost scales about half of WW's W, and his ult is about the same range as Kog'Maws. Nothing that he has seems broken so I'm not sure why everyone is already screaming that he is OP. He's got some good utility, but that doesn't make him OP.
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post #10413 of 17789
Is he out on one yet?? If so ima try him out when I get home!
He looks awesome biggrin.gif
Hopefully he gets a good skin that isn't "Flaming/Ice/Space-like" that we've been getting lately
His lore has some connections with WW maybe?
His brother or something like the ones we've been getting lately.. Draven/Darius Leona/Diana
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post #10414 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Degree View Post

Is he out on one yet?? If so ima try him out when I get home!
He looks awesome biggrin.gif
Hopefully he gets a good skin that isn't "Flaming/Ice/Space-like" that we've been getting lately
His lore has some connections with WW maybe?
His brother or something like the ones we've been getting lately.. Draven/Darius Leona/Diana

I'd doubt his brother, since he was turned into a wolf by Soraka and all.
    
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post #10415 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkArc View Post

Any champ is OP if played properly. I've seen some Zyra's destroy and some get destroyed. Same with Darius, Diana, etc.
That being said, I was doing some stat looking at from the reddit link provided by Mike-IRL. Rengar looks pretty on par with other tanks, so I'm thinking he is going to play similar to Volibear or Garen.
As far as his abilities go, his passive is a fair bit smaller than WW's ult, his Q's AS boost scales about half of WW's W, and his ult is about the same range as Kog'Maws. Nothing that he has seems broken so I'm not sure why everyone is already screaming that he is OP. He's got some good utility, but that doesn't make him OP.

I agree with the first statement. The only champion I know how to use properly right now is Veigar, and I constantly see people telling me how extremely OP is after the game, simply because I went 10/0, 12/2, etc. If you know when to use your spells and when to approach and not approach champions, then it isn't hard to do very well with certain champions.

I used to think veigar was OP as well, because using his E can stun multiple champions for 3 seconds (or was it longer?), giving you enough time to use W, Q, and your ultimate, instantly killing any AP champion on the other team if you are level 15+. if 2 champions are too close and you hit with your E, then you can W both of them late game, taking off 30-40% of their HP instantly.

However, if a champion gets too close to Veigar, you will die. Especially good AD champions. Also, a smart enemy will chase you down right after you use your E, so they have 20 seconds to kill you and you don't have any CC to stop them.
post #10416 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkArc View Post

Any champ is OP if played properly. I've seen some Zyra's destroy and some get destroyed. Same with Darius, Diana, etc.
That being said, I was doing some stat looking at from the reddit link provided by Mike-IRL. Rengar looks pretty on par with other tanks, so I'm thinking he is going to play similar to Volibear or Garen.
As far as his abilities go, his passive is a fair bit smaller than WW's ult, his Q's AS boost scales about half of WW's W, and his ult is about the same range as Kog'Maws. Nothing that he has seems broken so I'm not sure why everyone is already screaming that he is OP. He's got some good utility, but that doesn't make him OP.

Riot looks at the champions win ratio when deciding to tweak champion abilities or damage. You have to understand that there is a lot of the community that finds Kassadin OP in soloQ, and he is still banned out often, but you almost NEVER see him played or banned in high level play.

It is difficult to balance champions for 2 entirely different communities, so they try their best to make small changes to keep them playable but not have them be a 100% ban in top level play. Riot wants high level bans to be chosen based on playstyle/teamcomp, not just because they are strong.

Unfortunately there are tournaments that will play on the Zyra patch, and she will be picked/banned a lot.
 
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post #10417 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rctrucker View Post

Riot looks at the champions win ratio when deciding to tweak champion abilities or damage. You have to understand that there is a lot of the community that finds Kassadin OP in soloQ, and he is still banned out often, but you almost NEVER see him played or banned in high level play.
It is difficult to balance champions for 2 entirely different communities, so they try their best to make small changes to keep them playable but not have them be a 100% ban in top level play. Riot wants high level bans to be chosen based on playstyle/teamcomp, not just because they are strong.
Unfortunately there are tournaments that will play on the Zyra patch, and she will be picked/banned a lot.

Riot has no idea what they are doing lol. They take a champ and buff them until they are op and in every match, and then nerf them until nobody plays them and then rinse and repeat. When a champ finally gets balanced, people complain because they require knowledge to play, so Riot buffs the champ making them "OP" and then people complain about that and that champ keeps getting banned so they nerf it again. It's a vicious cycle that will never end because they release a new champ every two weeks rather than fix the ones currently out there.
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post #10418 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkArc View Post

Riot has no idea what they are doing lol. They take a champ and buff them until they are op and in every match, and then nerf them until nobody plays them and then rinse and repeat. When a champ finally gets balanced, people complain because they require knowledge to play, so Riot buffs the champ making them "OP" and then people complain about that and that champ keeps getting banned so they nerf it again. It's a vicious cycle that will never end because they release a new champ every two weeks rather than fix the ones currently out there.

This is the comment expected from someone who doesn't fully understand the game as an whole entity. You just look at your level of play and wonder, "why they nerf this champ and not that champ? he's more OP." It's because they have to consider all levels of play as rctrucker says. They don't just focus on your elo, or anyone other specific elo. When a game is for both competition and leisure play, it is hard to avoid destroying the competitive scene while keeping it fun for the random player no one knows. If you think they don't know what they're doing, quit and make your own game, put in an application at Riot, or better yet, post on the forum with the rest of the community so their public relations representatives can bring your thoughts and others' to their development team's attention. Their are plenty of options for people who feel they are so bad at what they do. Personally I think they're doing a great job in regulating the balance of champs based on their business plan, i.e. releasing a new champ every 2-3 weeks.

Summary: If you don't like how the game is run, don't play it or do something proactive about it.
Edited by Crunkles - 8/10/12 at 12:10pm
    
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post #10419 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunkles View Post

This is the comment expected from someone who doesn't fully understand the game as an whole entity. You just look at your level of play and wonder, "why they nerf this champ and not that champ? he's more OP." It's because they have to consider all levels of play as rctrucker says. They don't just focus on your elo, or anyone other specific elo. When a game is for both competition and leisure play, it is hard to avoid destroying the competitive scene while keeping it fun for the random player no one knows. If you think they don't know what they're doing, quit and make your own game, put in an application at Riot, or better yet, post on the forum with the rest of the community so their public relations representatives can bring your thoughts and others' to their development team's attention. Their are plenty of options for people who feel they are so bad at what they do. Personally I think they're doing a great job in regulating the balance of champs based on their business plan, i.e. releasing a new champ every 2-3 weeks.

As a matter of fact I am making my own game. Trust me, I have a very deep knowledge of how a game works, and how incredibly difficult it is to make it balanced. But you don't balance something by adding more stuff to it. All they are doing is making a complex scenario even harder to fix. The only way the game would ever become balanced is if they stopped releasing new champs, which I know they aren't (and I don't blame them since it's their income). All I was trying to say is that there is always going to be a fluctuation in who is the "OP" champs at that current point in time. It's a cycle and it will always exist.

As far as looking at my own level, you're way off mark. I'm not the best LoL player and I don't claim to be, but I'm smart enough to understand all the mechanics. If you noticed my first post, I said any champ is OP if you know how to play them. About a year ago when Eve was in her insta-dodge mode, I saw people hard carrying with her. Was it because she was "OP"? No, it was because people understand the champ and knew how to play her. Honestly, one of my least favorite things they ever did to the game was changed Kassadin's W. I loved when it was armor pen instead of magic damage. You could build such an op AD carry out of him or even use it to push turrets as ap, but nobody understood that and they changed it.
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post #10420 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkArc View Post

As a matter of fact I am making my own game. Trust me, I have a very deep knowledge of how a game works, and how incredibly difficult it is to make it balanced. But you don't balance something by adding more stuff to it. All they are doing is making a complex scenario even harder to fix. The only way the game would ever become balanced is if they stopped releasing new champs, which I know they aren't (and I don't blame them since it's their income). All I was trying to say is that there is always going to be a fluctuation in who is the "OP" champs at that current point in time. It's a cycle and it will always exist.
As far as looking at my own level, you're way off mark. I'm not the best LoL player and I don't claim to be, but I'm smart enough to understand all the mechanics. If you noticed my first post, I said any champ is OP if you know how to play them. About a year ago when Eve was in her insta-dodge mode, I saw people hard carrying with her. Was it because she was "OP"? No, it was because people understand the champ and knew how to play her. Honestly, one of my least favorite things they ever did to the game was changed Kassadin's W. I loved when it was armor pen instead of magic damage. You could build such an op AD carry out of him or even use it to push turrets as ap, but nobody understood that and they changed it.

Clearly you are unaware of the fact that the fluctuation in what champ is "OP" is part of their game design.... I've sat with Riot engineers, PR reps, professional LoL players, and even Morello. The idea of it is to not only change how the game is played to avoid a stagnation, but to also give players an opportunity for their favorite champ to be "OP". Some stay there longer than others simply because of their skill set having a strong utility in their lane. What it comes down to is adding another aspect of the game that changes from time to time to throw a different flavor in the game. Sometimes it doesn't work out how they intended, but that's bound to happen in any game whether it appears flawless or a mess. But with a game this big around the world, it is doing great. Hell hardly anyone in plays Hecarim on the NA servers unless he's free, but they love him in Asia and will even pick him when they are counter picked because of his ability to initiate.

It's all about how you look at the game and intend to play it that makes a champ strong. Obviously some champs are just terrible, and should be reworked in some way. Eventually they might be, but until then we just have to enjoy the game for what it is instead of pointing out everything we consider a "flaw" because we believe it should be done differently. So just take what you don't like about LoL and leave it out of your game, if you ever finish it.

Edit: And the reason they make the new champs strong on release? So people will buy them with RP or buy the skin if they buy with IP, and they can enjoy pub stomping people for a few weeks. Great business strategy in my opinion; let people enjoy a strong champ with new abilities, make money. Win/win in my book.
Edited by Crunkles - 8/10/12 at 12:37pm
    
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