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post #4161 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

That's because Riot doesn't know how to balance, Lee Sin is still OP, and he will be for the foreseeable future.

is that because you dont know how to counter him? The only OP champs at the moment IMO are Xerath and Kog'Maw. Fizz will probably get altered next patch cause he is a bit strong bu not by any means OP. All you need is CC to stop 90% of the champs that people think are OP. too tanky? get madreds... too bursty? get CC champs and defensive items. cake
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post #4162 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceColdBrewski View Post

is that because you dont know how to counter him? The only OP champs at the moment IMO are Xerath and Kog'Maw. Fizz will probably get altered next patch cause he is a bit strong bu not by any means OP. All you need is CC to stop 90% of the champs that people think are OP. too tanky? get madreds... too bursty? get CC champs and defensive items. cake

Xerath OP? Rofl. Kog would be too strong if he wasn't one of the only counters to retarded tanky DPS.

Madred's is useless. 4% of ~3k HP is 120, average tanky DPS champ will have what? 150-200MR? That means they'll have at least 8k effective HP vs magic damage. Add in say 150 AD (seeing as you dropped over 3k on a Madred's you probably don't have too much AD), with just an Atma's and no runes or anything, Lee Sin would have 128 armor, or 7.5k effective HP versus physical damage.

GL dealing that much damage while he stomps your face in with 180+ AD and incredible base damage on his abilities.

That's the main balance issue with this game, tanky items are WAY too cost effective compared to damage items. A champ like Lee Sin, Renekton, etc., can get one or two cheap damage items then build pure tank and just stomp anything because they have high base damage and can nuke carries no problem. If a carry builds 1 or 2 damage items and then tank, they do **** all for damage, so they have to devote all of their money to damage, which just gets mitigated by a couple items anyways, and then they're squishy and get **** on.
Edited by Fortunex - 11/21/11 at 10:56pm
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post #4163 of 17789
Ya, I watched a match that Saint Vicious streamed where he got about 264 AD with Wukong, while having 3600+ health and hundreds of armour and MR, and tons of armour pen. Then again he was pretty fed.

A lot of people don't seem to like the tanky DPS meta, but whatever.

Lee Sin can do 1000 damage with his ulti with just 200 AD, and his Q does a total of almost 400 damage and 0.9:1 AD.

Now, I have one question though. Why is it, that a champion will get "nerfed" and everyone will just drop them at the sound of that? Like Sion's shield scales 0.9:1 now instead of 1:1 and people are QQing pretty hard. Lee Sin also got the same drop with his Q (from 1 to 0.9).

Also, why are people saying Akali is bad now?
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post #4164 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Also, why are people saying Akali is bad now?

Because the nerfs means she can't 1v5 the enemy side late game obviously
post #4165 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by beegeehost View Post

Because the nerfs means she can't 1v5 the enemy side late game obviously

Yup, 1% less per stack on both of the passives. OH NOES!!1one!

Oh I forgot, 5 less damage on her Qs. D: D: D: D: D: D: D: D:
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post #4166 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by TFL Replica View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

That's because Riot doesn't know how to balance, Lee Sin is still OP, and he will be for the foreseeable future.

Maybe. But my point was that most Lee players dropped him after the nerf without trying him again. Most players don't know he's still good (or don't know how to play him).

Actually , he got shafted pretty hard due to the safeguard/flash nerfs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortunex View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by IceColdBrewski View Post

is that because you dont know how to counter him? The only OP champs at the moment IMO are Xerath and Kog'Maw. Fizz will probably get altered next patch cause he is a bit strong bu not by any means OP. All you need is CC to stop 90% of the champs that people think are OP. too tanky? get madreds... too bursty? get CC champs and defensive items. cake

Xerath OP? Rofl. Kog would be too strong if he wasn't one of the only counters to retarded tanky DPS.

Madred's is useless. 4% of ~3k HP is 120, average tanky DPS champ will have what? 150-200MR? That means they'll have at least 8k effective HP vs magic damage. Add in say 150 AD (seeing as you dropped over 3k on a Madred's you probably don't have too much AD), with just an Atma's and no runes or anything, Lee Sin would have 128 armor, or 7.5k effective HP versus physical damage.

GL dealing that much damage while he stomps your face in with 180+ AD and incredible base damage on his abilities.

That's the main balance issue with this game, tanky items are WAY too cost effective compared to damage items. A champ like Lee Sin, Renekton, etc., can get one or two cheap damage items then build pure tank and just stomp anything because they have high base damage and can nuke carries no problem. If a carry builds 1 or 2 damage items and then tank, they do **** all for damage, so they have to devote all of their money to damage, which just gets mitigated by a couple items anyways, and then they're squishy and get **** on.

The only thing remotely broken in this game is true damage and crits.The only reason the tanky dps meta is persistent is because of how scaling works , armor and MR is on a bell curve while HP scaling is infinite(note: not effective HP) , this is why champions with high health values such as cho gath(when stacked) do not get scaling on MR/poor armor scaling to compensate for the high health values.This effectively means that the one-item counter to tanky dps is actually black cleaver/madreds(for targets with lower or equal to 100MR)/LW(carries with built in steriod) for AD carries and void staff/DFG for mages because so long as you have enough armor/MR reduction , their gold/stat effectiveness would decrease dramatically ; this is why you do not wait for armor/MR pen to be your last item unless you are really sure you can fight the uphill battle of farming for the damage needed.

Oh btw , your only true defense as a carry would only be lifesteal , you're doing it wrong if you need anything more than 2 defensive items per game.

True damage is self explanatory , especially when they have extremely good scaling based on other stats.This is why olaf , vayne and irelia(cho excluded) really only needs to build a few core items to deal damage to anyone in the enemy team as they please.

Crits on the other hand , is only due to the fact that riot changed it to a certain period of time whereby your attacks can crit and is not purely based on a random roll anymore.This means that a cait with IE could deal 4 hits in a row which can very well be the total damage output she did in a teamfight done in less than half the time as compared to another cait with the same AD/AS but no crit.
    
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post #4167 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Yup, 1% less per stack on both of the passives. OH NOES!!1one!
Oh I forgot, 5 less damage on her Qs. D: D: D: D: D: D: D: D:

Hahahaha, I know, right? I had the same basic reaction when one of my friends was QQing over how "useless" Akali is now :S
post #4168 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by beegeehost View Post

Hahahaha, I know, right? I had the same basic reaction when one of my friends was QQing over how "useless" Akali is now :S

Akali is quite useless now. The Hextech Gunblade nerf hurt her survivability a lot, and now the nerf on top of that ruins her.
post #4169 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by chia233 View Post

Actually , he got shafted pretty hard due to the safeguard/flash nerfs.
The only thing remotely broken in this game is true damage and crits.The only reason the tanky dps meta is persistent is because of how scaling works , armor and MR is on a bell curve while HP scaling is infinite(note: not effective HP) , this is why champions with high health values such as cho gath(when stacked) do not get scaling on MR/poor armor scaling to compensate for the high health values.This effectively means that the one-item counter to tanky dps is actually black cleaver/madreds(for targets with lower or equal to 100MR)/LW(carries with built in steriod) for AD carries and void staff/DFG for mages because so long as you have enough armor/MR reduction , their gold/stat effectiveness would decrease dramatically ; this is why you do not wait for armor/MR pen to be your last item unless you are really sure you can fight the uphill battle of farming for the damage needed.
Oh btw , your only true defense as a carry would only be lifesteal , you're doing it wrong if you need anything more than 2 defensive items per game.
True damage is self explanatory , especially when they have extremely good scaling based on other stats.This is why olaf , vayne and irelia(cho excluded) really only needs to build a few core items to deal damage to anyone in the enemy team as they please.
Crits on the other hand , is only due to the fact that riot changed it to a certain period of time whereby your attacks can crit and is not purely based on a random roll anymore.This means that a cait with IE could deal 4 hits in a row which can very well be the total damage output she did in a teamfight done in less than half the time as compared to another cait with the same AD/AS but no crit.

The reason the tanky DPS meta is so persistent is because the only reliable counter to tanky DPS is... more tanky DPS.

True damage isn't that big of an issue when most tanky champs have crazy base damage as it is.

Riot needs to make tanky items cost more in-line with that of damage items. A Chain Vest costs 700g and gives you 45% more effective HP vs physical. To get 45% more AD, it costs 1650 for most champs (buying as a first item).
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post #4170 of 17789
As the game is loading

Me: Oh look a MF skin. (Cowgirl MF)
Andy: *lustful moaning*
Me: I'd crit that.
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