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post #6401 of 17789
Free elo is nice

378
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post #6402 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunkles View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

teammates

It is a team game, whether you like it or not. You want a system based solely on your own ability? Play chess.

Edit: It has already been said that players have reached high Elo on their own accord, and if you can't reach it alone or with a friend, then it just won't happen. If you can't seem to carry people, queue with someone who you know is good enough for the 2 of you to do well. Sometimes this doesn't work either. If this angers you to the point of ranting incessintly about it for several days, then stop playing the game. Riot isn't going to change it because it works, maybe not perfect, but no system does. It is the world we live in, and we are playing with real people. Some people play well one game and terrible the next. I know you don't memorize names of people you play with so you can't comment one way or another whether or not you constantly play with one terrible player all the time. Match history doesn't say much either, as it shows 10 games and most people have played 100s. If a truly valid point eventually gets made here I will consider it, but up to this point I have only read complaints that you can't carry the bad people, or bad people don't deserve to be carried now and then, when I can guarantee you've all had bad games as I've been witness to Simca having both great and terrible games. /Done with this topic, on to something more enjoyable/useful.

Yes, it's a team game, but ELO reflects YOUR skill, not your TEAM's skill. So why is your TEAM having such an effect on YOUR elo?

ELO is used to match you with players of similar skill. Playing as a team to win the game is another issue and ofc a team that plays well are going to do much better than a team that doesn't play well together. That said, if you're put on an awful team and EVERYONE ELSE doesn't play well, YOU are made worse off because of THEIR inability.

Your elo drops and now you're going to get worse and worse team mates

Where as if it was dependent on your personal skill/KDA, then you would constantly play with other players of your skill level.

Playing with other players of your skill level SHOULD render a better team to play against ANOTHER team that is as positive in score/skill as you are and you would REALLY be matched up properly. Instead you're matched up with people based upon their team's skill rather than their own skill level.

Let's say someone was somehow ALWAYS put on a poor team (I know the odds are impossible that you'd always be on a terrible team, but let's say you are) and you never win a game even though if you were put on a decent team you would always win. ELO says that that player is very bad when in actuality they are very good.

ELO = Team's Overall Skill that the player is put on. Not their own skill level. That is a very poor way to match players up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by volim View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Because of this, we will always have poor match making.
Personal stats should show what you did in the game. If you're 0/10, you obviously fed that game and did poorly. Even if you have 22 assists.
Tanky DPS should have a combination of kills and assists, support should have a ton of assists, DPS/carries should have tons of kills.
And everyone should have minimal deaths. If you have a ton of deaths, you hurt your team either way you look at it.
So if someone is playing Sona, then they should have their assists count for more than kills.
If someone is playing Master Yi, they should have their kills count more than assists.
If someone is playing amumu, their assists, lack of deaths and perhaps to a lesser extent number of kills should matter.
If someone is playing Ryze, kills should matter more than assists.
But no matter who you're playing, you should not have a ton of deaths.
Maybe a point system should be created. 5 points for a kill -5 points for a death. +2.5 points for an assist.
X amount of points for damage done to towers/towers destroyed.
Sure, you won't calculate players 100% based on their decision in team fights, but I think this would be a better way of matching people up than win/loss ratio because it's clearly not working.

So basically, as long as I get kills and stay behind and never die, never do any warding, leave teamfights as soon as I secure my 5 ELO, etc. it doesn't work out.

QQ more, the game is a teamgame.

It's a team game and therefore elo doesn't reflect you at all, it reflects the teams you've been on. So basically it reflects poor Riot matchmaking is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Free elo is nice

378

I'm not gonna' take away from your win. Good job with that, but look at the complete bipolar difference between the two teams. Everyone was positive on your team, everyone was negative on the other. Why are those 2 teams playing each other?



I also didn't calculate how bad a death is in LoL rather than -5 it should be closer to -7.5 or even 10.

Feeding is terrible. The higher your kill count is, the more gold you're worth as well when you die. So having 10 kills and 10 deaths is worse than having 0 kills and 10 deaths because that person that died 10 times is worth nothing after a few deaths. You are worth a lot more to the enemy with your 10 kills.

I'm not sure how to go about taking that into account, but I still feel personal stats are much more important.
Edited by Simca - 2/8/12 at 3:50pm
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post #6403 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post


I'm not gonna' take away from your win. Good job with that, but look at the complete bipolar difference between the two teams. Everyone was positive on your team, everyone was negative on the other. Why are those 2 teams playing each other?
I also didn't calculate how bad a death is in LoL rather than -5 it should be closer to -7.5 or even 10.
Feeding is terrible. The higher your kill count is, the more gold you're worth as well when you die. So having 10 kills and 10 deaths is worse than having 0 kills and 10 deaths because that person that died 10 times is worth nothing after a few deaths. You are worth a lot more to the enemy with your 10 kills.
I'm not sure how to go about taking that into account, but I still feel personal stats are much more important.

Hence the title "free elo".
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post #6404 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Free elo is nice

378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post


I'm not gonna' take away from your win. Good job with that, but look at the complete bipolar difference between the two teams. Everyone was positive on your team, everyone was negative on the other. Why are those 2 teams playing each other?
I also didn't calculate how bad a death is in LoL rather than -5 it should be closer to -7.5 or even 10.
Feeding is terrible. The higher your kill count is, the more gold you're worth as well when you die. So having 10 kills and 10 deaths is worse than having 0 kills and 10 deaths because that person that died 10 times is worth nothing after a few deaths. You are worth a lot more to the enemy with your 10 kills.
I'm not sure how to go about taking that into account, but I still feel personal stats are much more important.

Hence the title "free elo".

Yep. I understood, just commenting for others to further see my point.

I find it hilarious everyone thinks elo reflects your skill and that your skill should get you wins in a team game.
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post #6405 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Yes, it's a team game, but ELO reflects YOUR skill, not your TEAM's skill. So why is your TEAM having such an effect on YOUR elo?
ELO is used to match you with players of similar skill. Playing as a team to win the game is another issue and ofc a team that plays well are going to do much better than a team that doesn't play well together. That said, if you're put on an awful team and EVERYONE ELSE doesn't play well, YOU are made worse off because of THEIR inability.
Your elo drops and now you're going to get worse and worse team mates
Where as if it was dependent on your personal skill/KDA, then you would constantly play with other players of your skill level.
Playing with other players of your skill level SHOULD render a better team to play against ANOTHER team that is as positive in score/skill as you are and you would REALLY be matched up properly. Instead you're matched up with people based upon their team's skill rather than their own skill level.
Let's say someone was somehow ALWAYS put on a poor team (I know the odds are impossible that you'd always be on a terrible team, but let's say you are) and you never win a game even though if you were put on a decent team you would always win. ELO says that that player is very bad when in actuality they are very good.
ELO = Team's Overall Skill that the player is put on. Not their own skill level. That is a very poor way to match players up.
It's a team game and therefore elo doesn't reflect you at all, it reflects the teams you've been on. So basically it reflects poor Riot matchmaking is.
I'm not gonna' take away from your win. Good job with that, but look at the complete bipolar difference between the two teams. Everyone was positive on your team, everyone was negative on the other. Why are those 2 teams playing each other?

This is how ELO works, but does NOT touch matchmaking. You should look it up because it does not work like this:

Acquire 5 people with similar ELO, add ELO total up.
Acquire 5 people with similar ELO to group 1, add ELO up.

ELO 1 close enough to ELO 2? GAME ON! doh.gif

The more you win, the harder match ups you will get. If you are on a 4 win streak, don't be shocked to find your team 50-100 ELO less than you by game 5, or to see the other team with 50-100 ELO higher than you. There are limits, but matchmaking matches you at a 50% chance of winning. If you are STOMPING people at 1200 ELO, it will match you with crappy teammates, or against a higher ELO team.

That is why people go on win/loss streaks. As you win, games get harder, as you lose games get easier (according to the combination and understanding of the ELO AND matchmaking system)
thinking.gifLINK thinking.gif
 
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post #6406 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rctrucker View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

Yes, it's a team game, but ELO reflects YOUR skill, not your TEAM's skill. So why is your TEAM having such an effect on YOUR elo?
ELO is used to match you with players of similar skill. Playing as a team to win the game is another issue and ofc a team that plays well are going to do much better than a team that doesn't play well together. That said, if you're put on an awful team and EVERYONE ELSE doesn't play well, YOU are made worse off because of THEIR inability.
Your elo drops and now you're going to get worse and worse team mates
Where as if it was dependent on your personal skill/KDA, then you would constantly play with other players of your skill level.
Playing with other players of your skill level SHOULD render a better team to play against ANOTHER team that is as positive in score/skill as you are and you would REALLY be matched up properly. Instead you're matched up with people based upon their team's skill rather than their own skill level.
Let's say someone was somehow ALWAYS put on a poor team (I know the odds are impossible that you'd always be on a terrible team, but let's say you are) and you never win a game even though if you were put on a decent team you would always win. ELO says that that player is very bad when in actuality they are very good.
ELO = Team's Overall Skill that the player is put on. Not their own skill level. That is a very poor way to match players up.
It's a team game and therefore elo doesn't reflect you at all, it reflects the teams you've been on. So basically it reflects poor Riot matchmaking is.
I'm not gonna' take away from your win. Good job with that, but look at the complete bipolar difference between the two teams. Everyone was positive on your team, everyone was negative on the other. Why are those 2 teams playing each other?

This is how ELO works, but does NOT touch matchmaking. You should look it up because it does not work like this:

Acquire 5 people with similar ELO, add ELO total up.
Acquire 5 people with similar ELO to group 1, add ELO up.

ELO 1 close enough to ELO 2? GAME ON! doh.gif

The more you win, the harder match ups you will get. If you are on a 4 win streak, don't be shocked to find your team 50-100 ELO less than you by game 5, or to see the other team with 50-100 ELO higher than you. There are limits, but matchmaking matches you at a 50% chance of winning. If you are STOMPING people at 1200 ELO, it will match you with crappy teammates, or against a higher ELO team.

That is why people go on win/loss streaks. As you win, games get harder, as you lose games get easier (according to the combination and understanding of the ELO AND matchmaking system)
thinking.gifLINK thinking.gif

"your rating is the average of you and your team members"

Not you.

Also, assuming you understand it correctly, the matchmaking system is going to put worse teammates on my team to make the game fair? What? Why don't you just put me on a team with other people like me and face me against other people like me. Why would you put a bunch of derps on my team to make it harder for me? It doesn't make it harder for me. It makes me lose with absolutely no real reflection of what I've done in game. I'm just one person out of 5.

If I make a million dollars a year and have 4 other people in my neighborhood making 30k a year, how is the neighborhood going to look compared to another neighborhood of 5 people making 350k a year.

I'll tell you right now that my 2Million dollar mansion in the hood does not at all attract attention like a nice neighborhood with the average home being 700k or whatever.
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post #6407 of 17789
All this thread has turned into is QQing about how people don't win every game. Let me know when a real discussion starts.
    
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post #6408 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunkles View Post

All this thread has turned into is QQing about how people don't win every game. Let me know when a real discussion starts.

~Sparta kicks you in a hole to rot and die >:O~
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post #6409 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simca View Post

~Sparta kicks you in a hole to rot and die >:O~

"Getting kicked into a well is the least of your worries!" tongue.gif
    
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FrozenQ PC Mods 250mm Liquid Fusion V Series "2... Windows 7 Professional 64 bit BenQ xl2420T Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 
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CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 HAF 932 Steelseries 9HD Large ASUS Xonar Essence STX 
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Denon AH-D5000 
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Intel Core i7-3930K Sandy Bridge-E 3.2GHz (3.8G... ASUS Rampage IV Extreme LGA 2011 Intel X79 SATA... EVGA GTX680 CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (4 x 4GB) 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveOptical Drive
WD Black Caviar 750GB 7200rpm Kingston HyperX SSD Intel 520 Series Cherryville 2.5" 240GB SATA II... ASUS BW-12B1ST 
CoolingCoolingCoolingCooling
XSPC RayStorm High Performance Acetal CPU Liqui... Swiftech MCP655™ 12v Water Pump w/ Speed Control XSPC EX360 Triple 120mm Low Profile Split Fin R... Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm x 25mm Fan - 2150 RPM 
CoolingOSMonitorKeyboard
FrozenQ PC Mods 250mm Liquid Fusion V Series "2... Windows 7 Professional 64 bit BenQ xl2420T Happy Hacking Keyboard Pro 2 
PowerCaseMouse PadAudio
CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 HAF 932 Steelseries 9HD Large ASUS Xonar Essence STX 
Audio
Denon AH-D5000 
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post #6410 of 17789
Simca is worse than rageshotGG
Mini-ITX Beast
(13 items)
 
Project Boreas
(16 items)
 
Oh So FROSTY!
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 - 2500k Asus P8P67 WS Revolution GTX 570 GTX 570 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Blackline Samsung Spinpoint  Crucial M4 SSD Corsair H50 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate - 64bit Asus VH222H-P X2 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate NZXT Hale90-850-M 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 800D - White Razer Naga MMOG Razer Kabuto Altec Lansing 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500k @ 4.72 Asus P8P67-Pro [1850] 2x Asus HD 6950 DCII 1012/1487 @1.168V Crossfire 4 x 4gb Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
HDD: 7200rpm WD Black 1TB SSD: 126GB Crucial C300 Windows 7 64bit Ultimate 3 x Asus 22" Full HD Eyefinity Setup Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair HX750 [Modular] CoolerMaster HAF-X |rx360 rad - vpp655/dualbay res Razer Naga MMOG 
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Mini-ITX Beast
(13 items)
 
Project Boreas
(16 items)
 
Oh So FROSTY!
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
i5 - 2500k Asus P8P67 WS Revolution GTX 570 GTX 570 
RAMHard DriveHard DriveCooling
Mushkin Blackline Samsung Spinpoint  Crucial M4 SSD Corsair H50 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Windows 7 Ultimate - 64bit Asus VH222H-P X2 Razer Blackwidow Ultimate NZXT Hale90-850-M 
CaseMouseMouse PadAudio
Corsair 800D - White Razer Naga MMOG Razer Kabuto Altec Lansing 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5-2500k @ 4.72 Asus P8P67-Pro [1850] 2x Asus HD 6950 DCII 1012/1487 @1.168V Crossfire 4 x 4gb Corsair Vengeance 1600MHz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
HDD: 7200rpm WD Black 1TB SSD: 126GB Crucial C300 Windows 7 64bit Ultimate 3 x Asus 22" Full HD Eyefinity Setup Razer Blackwidow Ultimate 
PowerCaseMouse
Corsair HX750 [Modular] CoolerMaster HAF-X |rx360 rad - vpp655/dualbay res Razer Naga MMOG 
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Reply
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