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post #6731 of 17789
Malz is a lot of fun. I have screwed up 5+ ulties alone in my first game by casting a subscequent spell or moving.


This Vlad got an early kill on me and got cocky. Second time he tried to engage, I silenced him and kited him, and then hit him with the W+E+R ignite combo. I wanted only to force him back, or harass him, and I ended up killing him :O
Edited by Zackcy - 2/21/12 at 8:34am
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post #6732 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Malz is a lot of fun. I have screwed up 5+ ulties alone in my first game by casting a subscequent spell or moving.
This Vlad got an early kill on me and got cocky. Second time he tried to engage, I silenced him and kited him, and then hit him with the W+E+R ignite combo. I wanted only to force him back, or harass him, and I ended up killing him :O

377

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post #6733 of 17789
Think I might try a 900 elo game, see what it's like.
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post #6734 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Atmogs Gangplank is trash IMO.
I think Trintiy, Aegis, Fon, Randuins is a lot better.

You realize the huge difference in cost between Atmogs and your suggestion right?

Trinity: 30AP 30AD 30%AS 15%Crit 250HP 250MP 12% movement Cost- 4070 (Passive: 25% slow chance, after spell bonus damage = 150% of AD on 2 sec cooldown)
Aegis: 18Armor 270HP 24MR Cost- 1925 (Aura: 12armor, 15MR, 8AD)
FoN: +40HPreg 76MR 8% movement Cost- 2610 (Passive: .35% of max HP every second)
Randuins: 75Armor 350HP +25HPreg Cost- 3075 (Passive: 5%CDR, 20% chance reduce opp. AS and movement speed 35% for 3 sec, Active: applies passive in AoE for 2 secs + 0.5 sec for every 100Armor and MR on 60 sec cooldown)

Items equivalent to Atmogs: Trinity+Randuins, Cost: 7145

Atmogs
Warmogs: 920HP +30HPreg Cost- 3000 (Passive: Bonus cap at +350HP and +10HPreg)
Atma's: 45Armor 18%Crit Cost- 2355 (Passive: +AD = 2% of max HP)

Cost: 5355

The main reason health has been seen as so effective is because stats only give what you would call an "effective health bonus" vs that specific type of damage. Say you have 1000 HP and 0 armor, you effective health is 1000HP. At 10 armor, you receive a damage reduction of 9.091%, an effective health bonus of 10% and an effective health of 1100. So with this, at 50 armor you have 1500 effective health, 100 armor you have 2000HP, 500 armor 6000HP and 510 armor 6100HP. A similar effect occurs with MR, although I don't recall the exact values. The calculations even change once you drop below 0 armor/MR.


The point I'm trying to make is that while you're suggesting great items, their costs are very high and take a long time to make, leaving you with a low amount of HP and still vulnerable to 1 damage type or another for a large portion of the game. The HP stacking allows you to live through encounters with both damage types, while the atma's gives you additional damage from that health, and provides you additional effective health versus AD champs, which are normally sitting in the back poking you.

With that said, everyone has their preferences due to playstyle, masteries and rune page, and opponents you're currently facing. Just don't knock a build because some players do poorly with it.


Edit: This is why people build RoA on Cho'gath and become ridiculously hard to kill without focus.
Edited by Crunkles - 2/21/12 at 10:30am
    
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post #6735 of 17789
The reason that this is such a big difference in gold is that almost perfect CSing is around 10 minions per minute, which even most pros have trouble getting while playing at their level (to see a player who is amazing at getting CS, watch scarra play mid). This would give you 300 CS at 30 minutes if you could manage to do it, and you still couldn't afford the Trinity and Randuins without several kills/assists/dragons.

Edit: Meant to edit last post, instead double posted doh.gif
    
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post #6736 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rctrucker View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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I lol'd at work.
    
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post #6737 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunkles View Post

You realize the huge difference in cost between Atmogs and your suggestion right?
Trinity: 30AP 30AD 30%AS 15%Crit 250HP 250MP 12% movement Cost- 4070 (Passive: 25% slow chance, after spell bonus damage = 150% of AD on 2 sec cooldown)
Aegis: 18Armor 270HP 24MR Cost- 1925 (Aura: 12armor, 15MR, 8AD)
FoN: +40HPreg 76MR 8% movement Cost- 2610 (Passive: .35% of max HP every second)
Randuins: 75Armor 350HP +25HPreg Cost- 3075 (Passive: 5%CDR, 20% chance reduce opp. AS and movement speed 35% for 3 sec, Active: applies passive in AoE for 2 secs + 0.5 sec for every 100Armor and MR on 60 sec cooldown)
Items equivalent to Atmogs: Trinity+Randuins, Cost: 7145
Atmogs
Warmogs: 920HP +30HPreg Cost- 3000 (Passive: Bonus cap at +350HP and +10HPreg)
Atma's: 45Armor 18%Crit Cost- 2355 (Passive: +AD = 2% of max HP)
Cost: 5355
The main reason health has been seen as so effective is because stats only give what you would call an "effective health bonus" vs that specific type of damage. Say you have 1000 HP and 0 armor, you effective health is 1000HP. At 10 armor, you receive a damage reduction of 9.091%, an effective health bonus of 10% and an effective health of 1100. So with this, at 50 armor you have 1500 effective health, 100 armor you have 2000HP, 500 armor 6000HP and 510 armor 6100HP. A similar effect occurs with MR, although I don't recall the exact values. The calculations even change once you drop below 0 armor/MR.
The point I'm trying to make is that while you're suggesting great items, their costs are very high and take a long time to make, leaving you with a low amount of HP and still vulnerable to 1 damage type or another for a large portion of the game. The HP stacking allows you to live through encounters with both damage types, while the atma's gives you additional damage from that health, and provides you additional effective health versus AD champs, which are normally sitting in the back poking you.
With that said, everyone has their preferences due to playstyle, masteries and rune page, and opponents you're currently facing. Just don't knock a build because some players do poorly with it.

Wow, did not expect that tongue.gif


Well, actually, I always build damage mitigation at all times. I usually build an Aegis after Trinty, which gives health armour and mr. I find that Trinity is more cost effective, at it is really benefical to gangplank's kit as a whole. Gangplank shouldn't take a lot of damage, with Trinity + Fon you have 500 movement speed (all most). Your Q poke is absurd, and you have a cleanse on a 14 second CD.

Also, Trinity gives you attack speed, something that scales well with GP as he gets AD from his E. The AP isn't bad for his oranges, and his RNG ultimate, and having another slow onto your Q/autoattacks is always better.

The stats from the Zeal are really good. Hell, the whole thing is great. Any one of those 3 items are great to have in lane, and in game, and are better in lane than most parts of Atmogs (other than the Chain vest).

I was just suggesting that the Trinity force route was better, I wasn't trying to compare 2 items to a full build.

Atmogs takes forever to build, and only pays off ONCE you have gotten both parts, and you have stacked the Warmogs.
Edited by Zackcy - 2/21/12 at 10:32am
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post #6738 of 17789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Well, actually, I always build damage mitigation at all times. I usually build an Aegis after Trinty, which gives health armour and mr. I find that Trinity is more cost effective, at it is really benefical to gangplank's kit as a whole. Gangplank shouldn't take a lot of damage, with Trinity + Fon you have 500 movement speed (all most). Your Q poke is absurd, and you have a cleanse on a 14 second CD.
Also, Trinity gives you attack speed, something that scales well with GP as he gets AD from his E. The AP isn't bad for his oranges, and his RNG ultimate, and having another slow onto your Q/autoattacks is always better.
The stats from the Zeal are really good. Hell, the whole thing is great. Any one of those 3 items are great to have in lane, and in game, and are better in lane than most parts of Atmogs (other than the Chain vest).
I was just suggesting that the Trinity force route was better, I wasn't trying to compare 2 items to a full build.
Atmogs takes forever to build, and only pays off ONCE you have gotten both parts, and you have stacked the Warmogs.

But you do realize Tri Force costs almost as much as Atmogs? Tri Force and Aegis actually cost more than Atmogs.

Edit: Bursty champs will kill you before you can do anything with a Tri Force, making that dmg from the item almost worthless.

Edit 2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zackcy View Post

Wow, did not expect that tongue.gif

I like to support my opinion with the facts biggrin.gif
Edited by Crunkles - 2/21/12 at 10:39am
    
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post #6739 of 17789
Just rolled Clarity Mundo with Archangel's and FH in a UB game. Still dominated it somehow. Those are the best ones.
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post #6740 of 17789
People need to start playing kog'maw. He is the anti tanky team.
 
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