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Seasonic x400...case airflow required? - Page 2

post #11 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Lower efficiency = more heat = faster aging

Of course...I don't know why I didn't think about this last time...but fanned vs fanless kind of reverses this...
The heat load itself is all relative.
But at 10% load; Seasonic's X Platform exhibits ~84% efficiency. Which is only 2% less than it's 20% load.

Though for that matter; Seasonic's X-Series units also have protections in place on the 12v rectifiers so that if they exceed a certain temp threshold, even if the unit isn't at 20% load, the fan will kick on to cool things down.
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post #12 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
The heat load itself is all relative.
But at 10% load; Seasonic's X Platform exhibits ~84% efficiency. Which is only 2% less than it's 20% load.

Though for that matter; Seasonic's X-Series units also have protections in place on the 12v rectifiers so that if they exceed a certain temp threshold, even if the unit isn't at 20% load, the fan will kick on to cool things down.
Yeah I guess you're right, at these efficiency levels it doesn't really matter.

So what do you think then? Get the X560?
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post #13 of 22
The X560 is a safer choice with the semi-passive operation. You said you may upgrade the GPU in the future, so it would also allow a greater range of upgrades.

See, that's the "problem" with running stuff passive. Passive means it doesn't have a fan, right? However, passive does not mean zero air flow. To give you an example, back when I was employed, BFG had a passive 9800 GT (using a Thermalright HR03 GT or something like that). I personally tested the heck out of that configuration in a closed case with a single 80mm exhaust fan and it stayed cool enough. However, in the field it had a high failure rate. We specifically put on the box that it needed airflow, however end users weren't giving it any. We would have people call in to our techs all pissed off that their new card was glitching, and we would ask what kind of fans they were running in their case. Often they would question us as to why they would need case fans, because we sold them a "passive" card!

Another example comes from a friend of mine. The company he worked for was developing some industrial app, and needed some systems to be used in random areas that were not very accessible, so they wanted reliability. Their bright idea was to not use any fans, because when stuff gets dusty, fans are the first to die. So, they used Antec Phantom 350W PSUs, which was one of the first passive units on the market. Can anyone see where this is heading? They were put to use in environments that were sometimes dusty and hot (over 100°F ambient). PSUs started dropping dead within I think 2 months, and IIRC not a single one survived a half year.

Come to think of it, I had this conversation with him before they deployed a single system, warning him to not run the entire system passive.
Edited by Zap - 1/23/11 at 8:32am
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post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manyak View Post
Yeah I guess you're right, at these efficiency levels it doesn't really matter.

So what do you think then? Get the X560?
Yeah, like Zap Said; passive doesn't mean Zero-Airflow and the price premium for "passive" stuff is usually crazy.

X560 is a better bet, and it's got a fail safe incase things get hot.
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post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zap View Post
...However, passive does not mean zero air flow...
Nah I know, I've worked with many passive components before, and built both single-fan and no-fan systems. The thing is, sometimes convection is enough, and I was just curious if this was one of those cases. If the PSU could have been installed in a case with positive/negative pressure from other fans then I wouldn't even be asking this question. But with this PSU, even at a 200W draw you're only talking about ~22W of heat tops, which can definitely be cooled through convection alone. And since that heat is spread over multiple components it's even easier. But without the the top open for hot air to escape it's no longer straightforward, and the only way to know for sure if it will still run cool enough is to test it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Yeah, like Zap Said; passive doesn't mean Zero-Airflow and the price premium for "passive" stuff is usually crazy.

X560 is a better bet, and it's got a fail safe incase things get hot.
Yeah, looks like that's what I'm gonna end up doing . Having a failsafe is never a bad idea.
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post #16 of 22
I think you'll be fine, even with the x400. Convection will provide a small amount of airflow anyways.

At 400w load:

400/0.87 - 400 = 60w to dissipate.

I would trust it 100%. Keep in mind some airflow will be created due to warmer air rising, and some heat will be dissipated through radiative loss.

Besides, it's not like the PSU explodes when it overheats, it simply turns off. Buy the x400 and if you have overheating problems sell it and get the X560. I highly doubt you will have any problems with this.

Remember most of the components in that PSU can do their rated capacity at 105C!
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post #17 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
Remember most of the components in that PSU can do their rated capacity at 105C!
This doesn't mean a whole lot because at higher temps voltages will shift more, and capacitors (the main, early life failure cause in a PSU is the cap) are very susceptible to heat itself.

You'd most likely have a unit you needed to RMA because of bad caps from that excess heat.

Also, the X-Series doesn't have an OTP trip point till 100*C which is incredibly hot.
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post #18 of 22
JohnnyGuru ran it without any forced airflow with no issues, and stellar results!

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory2&reid=200
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post #19 of 22
I could never understand why people pay extra for a fanless PSU in a rig that won't even draw enough power to turn on the fan of a semi-passive unit. I had to add a second GTX470 AND an 8800GT to get the fan in my X650 to kick on.

With the X560, you'll never get that fan going on your rig. So why pay the same amount of money for lower performance and no fan?
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post #20 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by charliehorse55 View Post
JohnnyGuru ran it without any forced airflow with no issues, and stellar results!

http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...tory2&reid=200
That's not a longer term usage scenario.

Also, Wolf's Hot-Box has hot air being pumped in through the front of it. There is some minimal airflow in the unit.
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