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post #21 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvjavs View Post
Enlighten me how Windows using threads isn't the same as a thread being utilized. Oh, and also how it's only when certain games are running.
Let me show you...

WoW only allows 2 threads to be processed. Those two threads can be spread across 2 - 4 - 6 - 8 - 16 cores - it doesn't matter, it will run just as fast on 2 cores as it will on 16.

PI allowed on 4 cores.



Super_Pi is a single threaded program, yet as you can see one core never reached 100% usage as it should, since PI is benchmarking a single thread. What you see is windows spreading the workload over all available cores - but that is not the same as if super_pi was using all four cores.

PI allowed on 2 cores:



PI allowed on 1 core:




Just because you see a program running on 4 cores doesn't mean its working the way you think it is.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 1/25/11 at 8:09pm
    
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post #22 of 154
I love AMD but they need to realise that the only way to topple Intel is to beat them with regards to 'per-clock' performance. Games aren't ready for 8 games, heck games don't even use my 6 cores on my 1075T.

It's all about 'ops per clock' as that's were Intel has them licked...
post #23 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by amd4200 View Post
Gahhh why do people keep confusing me on the cores for bulldozer..
arn't they calling 4 modules 4 ACTUAL cores and then each module has two sub cores apiece? If not then Amd failed. IMHO.
Cores refer to integer pipelines. That is what the hardware sees, that is what the OS sees and that is what the application sees. 4 modules will have 8 execution pipelines so it is 8 cores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by antuk15 View Post
I love AMD but they need to realise that the only way to topple Intel is to beat them with regards to 'per-clock' performance. Games aren't ready for 8 games, heck games don't even use my 6 cores on my 1075T.

It's all about 'ops per clock' as that's were Intel has them licked...
Here, let me fix that:

Quote:
I love AMD but they need to realise that the only way to topple Intel is to beat them with regards to 'per-clock' performance in games.
I grow tired of the people believing that the entire world of competitiveness revolves solely around single thread performance.

That is a perfectly acceptable metric for describing the gaming world, but for the other 95% of the computer buying public that is not playing games, there are other things to consider.

If the #1 criteria for processor purchasing was performance, AMD and intel would sell a lot more top bin processors. Today it is ~5% of the total sales, at best.

The real competition in the market is actually not happening at the top, it's down in the middle where everyone is slugging it out for that 75% chunk of the market - because that is where the real money is.
post #24 of 154
Money is the root of all evil.

You're probably growing tired of it because you frequent a forum were most of the users are gamers, hence they have high end graphics cards, or two, or even three, a few have $2000's worth of gpus.

Single thread performance carries over into many other aspects of usage. One of your main points I've seen has always been chip vs chip performance, and you always seem to be comparing Intel chips with fewer cores to AMD chips with more cores. And while we can understand that you're able to provide more cores in a bid to make up the difference between the core vs core performance. Intel is setting the pricing, and AMD is playing the same role in GPU's. I have no idea what either company is worth, but I'd be willing to bet Intel is worth more.

The real competition is in the $200 or less area, where the SB chips have taken over at the top of that as far as I can tell, and there is no competition at the top because you can't afford to put the 8-12 cores on a none server chip that it would take for AMD to compete in raw multi-core performance with Intels high end chips.

Honestly it seems as though AMD is content with selling their products to people who don't know any better, with the lure of number of cores and MHz.


Edit: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/processo...h-amd-2067248/

Quote:
Intel brand not worth that much - AMD
Quote:
NEWSAt least that's the opinion of rival chip maker AMD which today claimed that new research shows buyers don't care who makes the system's brains, as long as they're fast. Research conducted by Intelliquest on behalf of AMD concludes that processor speed and PC brand are the most important criteria. 78 per cent of small and medium-sized businesses said processor speed was more important than brand. Price, configuration and support were seen as more important elements and the only areas where Intelliquest found brand loyalty to be strong related to the PC vendor itself. "The research shows that [buyers] will make their buying decision on the total package and not on whether one [PC] has the 'Intel Inside' sticker," said Robert Stead, European marketing manager for AMD's computation products group.

Edited by BallaTheFeared - 1/24/11 at 8:30pm
    
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post #25 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by amd4200 View Post
Gahhh why do people keep confusing me on the cores for bulldozer..
arn't they calling 4 modules 4 ACTUAL cores and then each module has two sub cores apiece? If not then Amd failed. IMHO.
In the beginning when IBM's and Univac's ruled the computing world with room filling computers, programs on punch cards, hardrives the size of small refrigerators that used powerful air conditioners and filtering to keep it all running Intel invented the X86 processor and pronounced it good. When the first IBM "generic" PC came out with Bill Gates fledgling OS the X86 integer core was on a piece of silicon by itself and the FPU or floating point unit was a separate chip on the mobo. Later on the FPU was built into the X86 integer core and the rest is history. Since then Intel and AMD have built Integer cores and FPU's on a one to one basis but Bulldozer changes all that with its "Module". A single module has two integer cores that share one and only one FPU. AMD did this to decrease the transistor count to get more chips from every wafer they produce which reduces costs and increases profitability. AMD reasons that there is no longer as much need for the on-die FPU because floating point math is clearly moving to a PC's GPU or video card. The whole idea behind AMD's new APU is to include a GPU on the CPU die and let that section of the chip do the floating point math which is a zillion times more efficient than the FPU unit. Think about the number of streaming processors on a modern video card (my HD5770 has 800 and my GTX 460 has 336) and each one being more powerful than an FPU. I can see in the future when OS's and apps are all coded to use the GPU section and there is no longer any FPU included on die. The only real issue with radical changes in computer hardware is that software is very slow to catch up. Look how long its taking 64 bit software to take over old fashioned 32 bit stuff. It was the same situation when Intel left 16 bit CPU's behind for processors worked in 32 bit bites. Windows 95 was the first hybrid OS that began the transition to 32 bit software which is mostly where we still are. Early days on speculation about Bulldozer and if that chart is true it's almost certainly engineering samples of CPU and chipset. I expect the NDA will end in May and then we'll see the real story. I'm very excited by the prospect of reading the first reviews on Anandtech and HardOCP.
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post #26 of 154
first, i gotta say i'm a bit amd fan. I haven't had an intel cpu since a pentium 200. Both my laptops i've owned have been an amd cpu as well...

but anyway, i just have a bad feeling that BD WILL be an improvement over phenom II but i just have a feeling it will only match an i7. I really think SB is going to crush it

on different note, i really hope they release an am3 version of the cpu or something too.
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post #27 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvjavs View Post
You'd be surprised which games do use 8 threads. I was playing Star Wars Galaxies last night and it was utilizing all 8 threads. Black Ops does as well.

Medal of Honor does, and I believe Bad Company 2 does as well at times. I'm sure there's more.
Exactly.

UT3 actually used all 4 of my cores quite well too. I think all 4 were between 70%-90%. And that game is over 4 years old.
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post #28 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp459 View Post
the giant "gaming" area makes me wonder.... games arent gonna use 8 threads so are they using the cores themselves are fast? i dunno seems fishy.
bulldozer will force threads onto applications
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post #29 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrAlex View Post
Is that with Core Boost enabled or not?
For gaming to be that much of the bar, it has to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelthras View Post
That doesn't seem that legit, the pictures letters and words seem distorted even when set to original resolution.
It was obviously resized.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelthras View Post
Plus why would it be in english when the site is foreign?
It's a leak, and the presentation it was originally made for was probably in english.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killabyte View Post
On the left it lists the Intel socket as 1156...then on the right graph it lists the i7 950... not socket 1156
1156 was the mainstream Intel socket. AM3+ will be the mainstream AMD socket.

I don't think the graph is necessarily supposed to represent what's in the chart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmp459 View Post
the giant "gaming" area makes me wonder.... games arent gonna use 8 threads so are they using the cores themselves are fast? i dunno seems fishy.
That's the Turbo Core at work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xd_1771 View Post
45nm > 32nm.
What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kvjavs View Post
Enlighten me how Windows using threads isn't the same as a thread being utilized. Oh, and also how it's only when certain games are running.
Windows decides which logical CPU to run threads on, and it can switch them around at will, for a variety of reasons, or none.

Many lightly threaded apps will still hit all the logical cores simply because windows is shifting them around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amd4200 View Post
Gahhh why do people keep confusing me on the cores for bulldozer..
arn't they calling 4 modules 4 ACTUAL cores and then each module has two sub cores apiece? If not then Amd failed. IMHO.
You're confusing yourself.

A four module Bulldozer has always been 8 actual cores.
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post #30 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by obsidian86 View Post
bulldozer will force threads onto applications
Are you saying that intel is only building single core processors?

This is an industry trend, not an AMD trend.
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