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Any sign of the 560 bios to try on a 460 yet?? - Page 12  

post #111 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillhouse;12162244 
Your proof is in the pudding, as the saying goes. Has anyone flashed a 460's BIOS to fully unlock it to a 560? No. Will any one ever succeed at such a task? Doubtful. The burden of proof is actually on you, since you're the one who proposed the notion to begin with.

This:
Quote:
Originally Posted by emreonal69;12142325 
I have tried to flashing GTX560 bios to my GTX460, result is; only clock speeds and bios version was changed, stream processor and card name was not changed.
Before update:
43399512.jpg

After the flashing process:
77220202.jpg

And the fact that some manufacturers are using 460 boards with 560 gpu's gives us every reason to believe it could be possible unlock the 8th cluster.

Also note, and I said this before, that every GPU is different. One batch may have been BIOS locked, another may have been laser cut.

If I had another 460 here I'd gladly flash it with a 560's BIOS. If the first card works after that, great, I'll check to see if works on the other card, and if it unlocks and shader clusters.

If it doesn't unlock, and the card works after the flash, at least I've gotten some higher clocks. Compare stock clocks of the 460 and 560.

Of course that point is null and void if your 460's clocks are higher than stock 560 clocks (ie, you've overclocked it or gotten a pre-overclock version)

The point I want to make very clear is that not enough people have flashed their 460 with a 560's BIOS for us to judge whether it is "safe" to flash (there is always a risk) AND if the cluster unlocks or not (see the point about different GPU's and batches)

I'm not going to waste any more time arguing whether GF114 and GF104 are the same with a one cluster difference, or whether they are completely different or not.

So please, post valid reasons with evidence of why GF104 and GF114 are different and incompatible with each other or stop fueling a pointless argument.

To people attempting the flash, please post before & after screenshots, which card you have, and what BIOS you flashed to, and any before and after shots of GPU benchmarks.
Edited by linkin93 - 1/27/11 at 7:51am
post #112 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
yea... a... mechanical engineer?
Electrical actually. He writes/IT support for manufacturing wafers, and if you dont know what those are are basically giant dics with hundreds of tiny chips on them. And about 10 unccut wafers cost around 50 grand.
    
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post #113 of 331
Flamewar? I sad.

In any case, shouldn't we just have some sort of experiment to figure this all out? Have someone use their GTX 460 (preferably a spare) and flash on various GTX 560 BIOS versions. That said 460 should be seeing performance increases, if any, when running any benchmarks. GPU-Z should also read something different from a stock 460.

Cool?
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post #114 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by pioneerisloud View Post
Firstly.....

8800GT, 9800GT = both G92, 112 SP, same clock speeds
8800GS, 9600GSO (first release) = both G92, 96 SP, same clock speeds
8800GTS 512, 9800GTX, 9800GTX+, GTS250 = all G92, 128 SP, same clock speeds, with the exception of SOME being a die shrink (even some 9800GTX+ and GTS250's are still 65nm instead of 55nm).

All of those cards were exact rebrands. They were all IDENTICAL in performance and overclockability. The ONLY difference between any of those cards was the name on it. THAT is a rebrand.



This right here just further proves it. In order to get those kind of clocks out of a supposed rebrand, its impossible. The architecture has been improved. To have an older example here, its like the 8800GS / 9600GSO, turning into a GT240. They're nearly identical (G92, G215), they perform identically, they have the same amount of SP's, and the G215 is actually based off G92 (just like G104 vs. G114). However the architecture was improved significantly to allow less power consumption for the same speeds.
less power consumption? bull****! the gtx 560 has a huge cooler compared to gtx 460 and higher voltages. and btw, why my card is working just fine with gtx 560 bios? with an incredible speed of 900MHz? ( I used palit gtx 560 Ti sonic bios) oooo gues what, i have a super card ). whit extremely low TDP
post #115 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsoviet View Post
Flamewar? I sad.

In any case, shouldn't we just have some sort of experiment to figure this all out? Have someone use their GTX 460 (preferably a spare) and flash on various GTX 560 BIOS versions. That said 460 should be seeing performance increases, if any, when running any benchmarks. GPU-Z should also read something different from a stock 460.

Cool?
Exactly what I wanted to see. Thank you for not fueling the flame war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
less power consumption? bull****! the gtx 560 has a huge cooler compared to gtx 460 and higher voltages. and btw, why my card is working just fine with gtx 560 bios? with an incredible speed of 900MHz? ( I used palit gtx 560 Ti sonic bios) oooo gues what, i have a super card ). whit extremely low TDP
The TDP of the GTX 460 is 160w, the TDP of the GTX 560 is 170w, hence the larger cooler. The question is why the TDP is larger, the most likely culprit being the extra shader cluster.

Also a note to all, I'd only be flashing a 460 to a 560 BIOS if your 460 is a 1GB version. Peace.

Also note that the GTX 460 can be clocked relatively high above stock clocks, near GTX 560 clocks on stock voltages.

The clocks are lower because nvidia wanted to keep the GPU in it's place, not so close to the next revision of the same card, if you will. To widen the gap between the 460 and 560. Smart.
Edited by linkin93 - 1/27/11 at 7:56am
post #116 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
I think nvidia did something to overwrite the gtx 460 bios just after they are flashed. Does anyone know how to turn a gtx 460 into gtx 560? I think the laser cut story is just a myth. Does the gtx 460 has a bios chip on the board? Did someone tried to change it with a gtx 560 one? What happens with a gtx 560 if we put the gtx 460 bios?
Laser cut dies have been around for 5+ years.

Of course, there is a "BIOS chip" on board... how is the firmware stored?

Someone already flashed a GTX460 with a GTX560 BIOS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
This is the only difference... so please think with me, not against me.
GTX 460 Architecture
GTX 560 Architecture
Do you realize that you are using simplified block diagrams to support your argument? Again, you are using a picture that removes all complexity for presentation purposes.


It would like saying, all analogue radio signals are the same based on this:



Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
less power consumption? bull****! the gtx 560 has a huge cooler compared to gtx 460 and higher voltages. and btw, why my card is working just fine with gtx 560 bios? with an incredible speed of 900MHz? ( I used palit gtx 560 Ti sonic bios) oooo gues what, i have a super card ). whit extremely low TDP
The GTX560 also has more cores and higher clock speed....

Your GTX460 could have gotten 900MHz from just overclocking it.
Edited by DuckieHo - 1/27/11 at 7:56am
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post #117 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkin93 View Post
This:



And the fact that some manufacturers are using 460 boards with 560 gpu's gives us every reason to believe it could be possible unlock the 8th cluster.

Also note, and I said this before, that every GPU is different. One batch may have been BIOS locked, another may have been laser cut.

If I had another 460 here I'd gladly flash it with a 560's BIOS. If the first card works after that, great, I'll check to see if works on the other card, and if it unlocks and shader clusters.

If it doesn't unlock, and the card works after the flash, at least I've gotten some higher clocks. Compare stock clocks of the 460 and 560.

Of course that point is null and void if your 460's clocks are higher than stock 560 clocks (ie, you've overclocked it or gotten a pre-overclock version)

The point I want to make very clear is that not enough people have flashed their 460 with a 560's BIOS for us to judge whether it is "safe" to flash (there is always a risk) AND if the cluster unlocks or not (see the point about different GPU's and batches)

I'm not going to waste any more time arguing whether GF114 and GF104 are the same with a one cluster difference, or whether they are completely different or not.

So please, post valid reasons with evidence of why GF104 and GF114 are different and incompatible with each other or stop fueling a pointless argument.

To people attempting the flash, please post before & after screenshots, which card you have, and what BIOS you flashed to, and any before and after shots of GPU benchmarks.
You just proved MY POINT. The flash didn't work. The card is still a GTX460, even after flashing it to a 560. It will not, and CAN NOT work.

If this worked, then people would have flashed 470's into 570's, and 480's into 580's. The PCB is similar, its still Fermi architecture so it must work, right?
 
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post #118 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkin93 View Post
Exactly what I wanted to see. Thank you for not fueling the flame war.
Thanks. I'll try to flash a 560 BIOS to my card (bless its soul) and report back with benches and results. I already have my own ROM backed up just in case.

Problem is, I don't know where to find a 560 BIOS.

EDIT: Oh wait. Mine's a 768mb version. Sad face
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post #119 of 331
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfk1024 View Post
less power consumption? bull****! the gtx 560 has a huge cooler compared to gtx 460 and higher voltages. and btw, why my card is working just fine with gtx 560 bios? with an incredible speed of 900MHz? ( I used palit gtx 560 Ti sonic bios) oooo gues what, i have a super card ). whit extremely low TDP
OOOO try and get over a ghz on stock voltage, haha good luck! And no they have the same voltage, but overclock way farther, you want the core to be the same, but its not, i really do think you still havnt read my last post.
Basically sayin, in caps so maybe youll actually read it, TO ACHIEVE A MUCH HIGHER OVERCLOCK AND STABILITY WITH THE SAME VOLTAGE, OBVIOUSLY NIVIDIA DID SOMETHING TO INCREASE AND TWEAK THE CORE TO MAKE IT MORE EFFICIENT AND STABLE, you fool, look at i7's, C0 VS D0, or AMDS C2/C3 REVISIONS. GET THE TERM *REVISIONS*
    
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post #120 of 331
This is like that idiot that came on here a month ago and was asking if he could solder on the extra memory chips on his GTX465 to make it into a GTX470.

You guys need to learn how GPU's are made before you post this kind of nonsense, seriously.
 
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