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Bulldozer or Ivy Bridge? - Page 10

post #91 of 164
I think you're all wrong and don't understand Intels Tick Tock Model.

45 nm for Intel was the i5-750 and i7-920 gen of products.

They lasted one year before Intel developed 32nm - those are the 980x chips and lesser i5-6xx chips.

Intel isn't scared, and they aren't doing anything new here. They're following their tick tock business model they employed quite some time ago.

If you want to stay on top of the game you need to redesign quickly even when you have a good chip, or you end up scrapping the barrel with K8 as AMD has for the last several years.


Intel has a very aggressive plan for advancement, that is all. Don't forget they've been dominating laptop sales for the last x years, and laptops sales crush desktop sales. I think Intel is stupid rich, and they understand they have to be the iPhone of computers.. They need to stay ahead of the game, else droid will come in and destroy their profits.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 1/28/11 at 2:14pm
    
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post #92 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
Pretty sure that was a typo in snelans post, he meant BD will be $400-$500.
Yes, sorry.
    
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post #93 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
I think you're all wrong and don't understand Intels Tick Tock Model.

45 nm for Intel was the i5-750 and i7-920 gen of products.

They lasted one year before Intel developed 32nm - those are the 980x chips and lesser i5-6xx chips.

Intel isn't scared, and they aren't doing anything new here. They're following their tick tock business model they employed quite some time ago.

If you want to stay on top of the game you need to redesign quickly even when you have a good chip, or you end up scrapping the barrel with K8 as AMD has for the last several years.


Intel has a very aggressive plan for advancement, that is all. Don't forget they've been dominating laptop sales for the last x years, and laptops sales crush desktop sales. I think Intel is stupid rich, and they understand they have to be the iPhone of computers.. They need to stay ahead of the game, else droid will come in and destroy their profits.
here is something you might remember :

Apple is interested in Fusion, people at Apple were pissed off when that rumour came out
You see, not everybody needs the fastest CPU on planet just to do daily tasks


I´m not pro, but this makes sense to me :
Quote:
Originally Posted by MUEngineer
..And you should notice they are not really even making their targets for the tick-tock any more. If they do, it's generally one Extreme Edition part that paper-launches well ahead of any real availability of mainstream parts. Let's look at their tick-tock schedule:

1. Tick: Shrink NetBurst and P6 to 65 nm, accomplished Jan 5th, 2006.
2. Tock: Core microarchitecture on 65 nm, accomplished July 27th, 2006. They then announced their "tick-tock" plan in 2007, so these first two were before the "tick-tock" plan even was hatched.
3. Tick: Shrink Core to 45 nm. Planned for 2007 and technically met with the Core 2 QX9770 launching on 11/11/07. Availability of non-Extreme Edition CPUs was in late January of 2008.
4. Tock: Debut Nehalem on 45 nm. Planned for 2008, the goal was partially met as the i7 9xx desktop CPUs did debut 11/17/08. However, the proposed laptop CPUs (Clarksfield) were canceled and the mainstream desktop CPUs based on this node didn't ship until mid-2009.
5. Tick: Shrink Nehalem to 32 nm. Planned for 2009, not met. The first 32 nm Nehalem derivatives shipped in January of 2010 (Arrandale mobile CPU) and nothing showed up on the desktop until March- and even then it was only one Extreme Edition CPU (i7 980X).
6. Tock: Debut Sandy Bridge on 32 nm. Planned for 2010, not met. The first 32 nm Sandy Bridges debuted earlier this month.

So if you look at how well Intel's done, they absolutely missed two out of the four cycles after instituting their "tick-tock" strategy and basically missed one more as well. Many of their even high-end products are on 2008's 45 nm Nehalem "tock" as the 32 nm Nehalem shrink basically only affected laptop and server users. Their "tick-tock" thus appears to be pretty flexible.

if SB and intels 32nm - are so great , why they will be so quickly replaced ?
this remembers me about socket 423, it was killed only after 9 months

LGA1155 is aimed at 2/4cores , 1356 *was* aimed 2/4/6/8 desktop, LGA 2011 was server only..
But oops, info about 1356 quietly disappeared at end of december 2010


this was expected, where is it?
Quote:
4 to 8 out-of-order cores, possibly up to 32 cores.
I don´t see any..
    
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post #94 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Intel isn't scared, and they aren't doing anything new here. They're following their tick tock business model they employed quite some time ago.

If you want to stay on top of the game you need to redesign quickly even when you have a good chip, or you end up scrapping the barrel with K8 as AMD has for the last several years.
Exactly, but I don't quite agree with the first statement. Perhaps scared isn't quite the term but they're wary of AMD and thus, Intel's not resting on their laurels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk View Post
..And you should notice they are not really even making their targets for the tick-tock any more. If they do, it's generally one Extreme Edition part that paper-launches well ahead of any real availability of mainstream parts. Let's look at their tick-tock schedule:

1. Tick: Shrink NetBurst and P6 to 65 nm, accomplished Jan 5th, 2006.
2. Tock: Core microarchitecture on 65 nm, accomplished July 27th, 2006. They then announced their "tick-tock" plan in 2007, so these first two were before the "tick-tock" plan even was hatched.
3. Tick: Shrink Core to 45 nm. Planned for 2007 and technically met with the Core 2 QX9770 launching on 11/11/07. Availability of non-Extreme Edition CPUs was in late January of 2008.
4. Tock: Debut Nehalem on 45 nm. Planned for 2008, the goal was partially met as the i7 9xx desktop CPUs did debut 11/17/08. However, the proposed laptop CPUs (Clarksfield) were canceled and the mainstream desktop CPUs based on this node didn't ship until mid-2009.
5. Tick: Shrink Nehalem to 32 nm. Planned for 2009, not met. The first 32 nm Nehalem derivatives shipped in January of 2010 (Arrandale mobile CPU) and nothing showed up on the desktop until March- and even then it was only one Extreme Edition CPU (i7 980X).
6. Tock: Debut Sandy Bridge on 32 nm. Planned for 2010, not met. The first 32 nm Sandy Bridges debuted earlier this month.

So if you look at how well Intel's done, they absolutely missed two out of the four cycles after instituting their "tick-tock" strategy and basically missed one more as well. Many of their even high-end products are on 2008's 45 nm Nehalem "tock" as the 32 nm Nehalem shrink basically only affected laptop and server users. Their "tick-tock" thus appears to be pretty flexible.
Intel did meet the 2009 and 2010 schedule for Westmere and Sandy Bridge respectively, at least in terms of production. They could have just as easily released Clarkdale or Sandy Bridge in November 2009/2010 instead of waiting until first week of January of the following year. Intel just happened to be able to afford delaying release until CES since AMD didn't really have something they could compete with.
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post #95 of 164
What will Ivy bridge bring to the table thats seriously any different to Sandy Bridge, except for a die shrink that will give it more cores?

If it has the same base clock and multiplier limitations, and can't be fsb overclocked due the graphics, all that will be different is that it has extra cores, more threads. Doesn't that sound like Intel can see the advantage of BD? Otherwise why bother adding more cores?
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post #96 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
What will Ivy bridge bring to the table thats seriously any different to Sandy Bridge, except for a die shrink that will give it more cores?

If it has the same base clock and multiplier limitations, and can't be fsb overclocked due the graphics, all that will be different is that it has extra cores, more threads. Doesn't that sound like Intel can see the advantage of BD? Otherwise why bother adding more cores?
Nothing, Ivy Bridge brings nothing but the 22nm fab process and it's inherited benefits.


The base clock and multiplier limitations (lol @ 5.7 GHz being a limitation) are only going to be a part of 1155, because of the on die gpu.

Socket 2011, doesn't have a gpu, and won't have the same limitations 1155 has.

You are confused as to what Ivy Bridge is and how it relates to the 2011 socket.

Sandy Bridge chips of x6 and x8 core counts will be released this year it seems on 2011 socket.

Ivy Bridge chips will be released on both 2011 and 1155 sockets next year, but there won't be many of them. After they get the fab process down for 22nm with Ivy Bridge, they will use that information and learning process to introduce their new arch on 22nm in 2013 known as Haswell.
    
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post #97 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Nothing, Ivy Bridge brings nothing but the 22nm fab process and it's inherited benefits.


The base clock and multiplier limitations (lol @ 5.7 GHz being a limitation) are only going to be a part of 1155, because of the on die gpu.

Socket 2011, doesn't have a gpu, and won't have the same limitations 1155 has.

You are confused as to what Ivy Bridge is and how it relates to the 2011 socket.

Sandy Bridge chips of x6 and x8 core counts will be released this year it seems on 2011 socket.

Ivy Bridge chips will be released on both 2011 and 1155 sockets next year, but there won't be many of them. After they get the fab process down for 22nm with Ivy Bridge, they will use that information and learning process to introduce their new arch on 22nm in 2013 known as Haswell.
I don't think i'm confused.

Quote:
Ivy BridgeIvy Bridge is the codename given to the 22 nm die shrink of the Sandy Bridge architecture. According to the keynote speech presented by Paul Otellini during the 2010 Intel Developer Forum (IDF), Ivy Bridge processors may be introduced as early as the second half of 2011.[35] However, it now seems more likely that Ivy Bridge will be launched a year after Sandy Bridge, probably during CES 2012. Ivy Bridge processors will employ double the number of EUs for the graphics sub-system compared to Sandy Bridge (up to a maximum of 24 EUs).[36] It will also provide DirectX 11 support, rather than the older DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 3 graphics technology that will be featured in the first batch of Sandy Bridge processors, while retaining its LGA 1155 socket compatibility.[37]
Link

Don't you see 5.7Ghz as a limitation then? It's not going to set any world records is it?

So the question was, what will Ivy bridge bring that's different? If you need me state "on either 1155 or 2011" then so be it.
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post #98 of 164
I thought the next "enthusiast" socket was 1365. I also thought 2011 was the next server socket. This thread confuses me.

Suppose they're all just rumors at this point.
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post #99 of 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
I don't think i'm confused.



Link

Don't you see 5.7Ghz as a limitation then? It's not going to set any world records is it?

So the question was, what will Ivy bridge bring that's different? If you need me state "on either 1155 or 2011" then so be it.
I think it's pretty clear, IB will offer almost nothing over 32nm SB. Slight improvements you'd except to see from newer products, but nothing major.
Aside from that I don't have a crystal ball, maybe 2011 will see a x12 chip or something, probably not but who really knows.

It will probably go much the same way 45 to 32 went this last gen. 1366 got the 980x, and 1156 got the 2 core 4 thread silliness.

No I don't see 5.7GHz on air as limiting, I see old gen INTEL and AMD chips requiring LN2 for the same clocks as I'm getting to be limiting.
    
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post #100 of 164
If I were to upgrade from my 4.1GHz overclocked 1090T, it would HAVE to be an eight-core, at least. Add to it extreme overclockability and great per-clock performance and I'm sold.
    
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