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Is Bulldozer a dream, or a reality? - Page 4

post #31 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
There's no point on continuing this discussion with you, you just don't get it.

AMD has never been sued either, you're right.

I guess you missed this part of my post right?
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/CPU/2

There are 21 Intel CPU's before we see any signs of AMD processors showing up in the charts.

I am PRO performance, and right now AMD is NOT it. Otherwise I would have an AMD rig RIGHT NOW.

I agree, AMD offers best bang for buck, but they are forced to price their products accordingly due to THEIR performance.

And a simple history lesson showed you that when they did have the fastest DUAL CORE processor, it was priced at $1000. If AMD cared about you so much, they would've priced it at say $300? But they didn't, and that's the POINT. I further proved that claim with their graphics cards practices as well, they are the same company, with the same business practices, they are a company in it to make money, period, just like Intel is.

Both companies will create products that will net them the most profits, sadly Intel just does a better job at it, and the proof is in the pudding.
http://www.google.ca/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:INTC

Yes, Intel had shady business practices, and paid AMD $1.25 Billion for it, which is less than 1% of their overall net worth, but to AMD, that accounted for 20% of their net worth. Big difference isn't it?

I guess you didn't take Economics in University did you?
First of all I have a masters degree and I studied economics as an undergrad. How ironic that you mention that. You keep saying that I am not understanding you, and yet you clearly show signs of not understanding me. Why are you talking about a performance list. I will readily admit, any day, that Intel's best is better than AMD's best. I have even said it here on this forum before. Why are you talking to me about this performance list (among other things that go off topic). You tried to suggest that AMD was NOT value, and I provided a counter example. Did I at any point say that AMD's top line up is superior to Intel's or even suggest this? No I did not. Do not try to suggest that I do not understand your point and say nonsense things like I did not take economics. I mean, look at why I talked about marginal cost vs marginal benefit. Why do you think I mentioned X5 cost vs less than double the performance in my earlier post? If you knew economics, you would know such a basic concept and why I brought it up.
post #32 of 55
Your arguments are like those of a child. I just read your sentence about how Intel's payment is X amount of their earnings vs Y amount AMD's. How is that relevant at all to our discussion. It's as if I angered you by saying something true, and now you are going all out in an Intel vs AMD talk that has nothing to do with the original topic. Yes, Intel is a bigger and more profitable company than AMD, I am glad you know that as well.
post #33 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy61 View Post
First of all I have a masters degree and I studied economics as an undergrad. How ironic that you mention that. You keep saying that I am not understanding you, and yet you clearly show signs of not understanding me. Why are you talking about a performance list. I will readily admit, any day, that Intel's best is better than AMD's best. I have even said it here on this forum before. Why are you talking to me about this performance list (among other things that go off topic). You tried to suggest that AMD was NOT value, and I provided a counter example. Did I at any point say that AMD's top line up is superior to Intel's or even suggest this? No I did not. Do not try to suggest that I do not understand your point and say nonsense things like I did not take economics. I mean, look at why I talked about marginal cost vs marginal benefit. Why do you think I mentioned X5 cost vs less than double the performance in my earlier post? If you knew economics, you would know such a basic concept and why I brought it up.
Re-Read my entire post, and we'll continue.
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post #34 of 55
2010rig, tl;dr
post #35 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Re-Read my entire post, and we'll continue.
There is nothing to read, your posts go off topic like how a child argues. You say that I did not take economics, and yet I talked about marginal cost vs marginal benefit in my example. Do you understand how foolish you appear?

Our source of argument was regarding value. You just said that AMD has great bang for the buck. So we agree.
post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicy61 View Post
Your arguments are like those of a child. I just read your sentence about how Intel's payment is X amount of their earnings vs Y amount AMD's. How is that relevant at all to our discussion. It's as if I angered you by saying something true, and now you are going all out in an Intel vs AMD talk that has nothing to do with the original topic. Yes, Intel is a bigger and more profitable company than AMD, I am glad you know that as well.
Ok I am child for pointing out an obvious fact that Intel is $115 Billion more profitable than AMD is?

Intel sells only CPU's, while AMD sells CPU's AND GPU's.

Heck, even Nvidia is worth nearly 3x more than AMD is, I wonder why that is.

Making inferior products and selling them cheaply is clearly not good business practice is it?

My whole point is that AMD's products are inferior ( as shown by the charts ), and therefore are priced accordingly.

Yes, I'm being results oriented, and I personally WANT to see Bulldozer succeed for many reasons. 1 simple obvious reason being that it will force Intel to price Ivy Bridge more reasonable for example.

Plus, I've stated that if BD delivers, I'll be building a BD rig. Heck, my rig now started as a 1090T rig....

Personally, I am not biased to either company, as I am fine with buying both their products, I think I've had just as many AMD rigs as Intel over the years, and it's quite obvious Intel is superior right now, or would you like to argue that fact?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riou View Post
2010rig, tl;dr
sry - I tend to ramble when I'm tired, I should go to bed.
Edited by 2010rig - 2/3/11 at 11:21pm
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post #37 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Ok I am child for pointing out an obvious fact that Intel is $115 Billion more profitable than AMD is?

Intel sells only CPU's, while AMD sells CPU's AND GPU's.

Heck, even Nvidia is worth nearly 3x more than AMD is, I wonder why that is.

Making inferior products and selling them cheaply is clearly not good business practice is it?

My whole point is that AMD's products are inferior ( as shown by the charts ), and therefore are priced accordingly.

Yes, I'm being results oriented, and I personally WANT to see Bulldozer succeed for many reasons. 1 simple obvious reason being that it will force Intel to price Ivy Bridge more reasonable for example.

Plus, I've stated that if BD delivers, I'll be building a BD rig.

Personally, I am not biased to either company, as I am fine with buying both their products, I think I've had just as many AMD rigs as Intel over the years, and it's quite obvious Intel is superior right now, or would you like to argue that fact?



sry - I tend to ramble when I'm tired, I should go to bed.
you are as you said yourself, rambling. why did i mention in my earlier post, how an athlon II 630 costs less than 5 times and yet gets outperformed by not even double? do you know why i mentioned that? you clearly do not. it makes you look hypocritical, when you accuse me of not taking econ in college when you can't even detect a BASIC concept in economics called marginal cost vs marginal benefit. do not talk about value and pricing when that is what I have been referring to from the beginning. you said yourself that AMD offers good bang for the buck. Good, that is all I was trying to say. And you agree. You just rambled off to a lot of nonsense in the process.
post #38 of 55
Ok - I'll sum it up with this:

AMD offers best bang for buck simply because they are forced to since their products are inferior, otherwise, they would be priced a lot higher, as shown by their history. ( $1000 dual core, $700 5970 ) I'm just tired of people claiming that AMD is so great for selling cheaper products, trust me, they're not doing it by choice, they would charge you more if their products were better.

You can quote me now, and we'll see if this statement stands true when BD is released.

Selling inferior products cheaply is clearly not good for business as shown by Intel's & Nvidia's worth vs AMD's.

For AMD's and all our sake, I sure hope BD delivers. If BD does deliver, I will be among the first to build a BD rig.
Edited by 2010rig - 2/3/11 at 11:36pm
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post #39 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siigari View Post
Firstly, I want to let everybody know I mean absolutely no offense whatsoever to AMD or anybody else.

I have been reading forums, news and talking with knowledgeable co-workers. None of us seem to know anything about Bulldozer. Is AMD just late to the game for the next-gen CPU, or are AMD quietly letting Bulldozer go?

I don't know anything about AMD other than what I read. Are there any updates on what's going on? Anything? ANYTHING?

Just wondering. I love following this stuff. I'm excited about Intel's work but semi-disappointed with Intel's Sandy Bridge simply because Intel is holding me so far away from Ivy Bridge I really want something new to read about! Bulldozer seems exciting and I want to read some real news!

Thanks everyone o/
Wow there's a flame war going on in here but to answer your question, the best place to look for info on Bulldozer is on AMD's website. John Fruhe (JF-AMD here on the site) has published a bunch of blogs about Bulldozer for the masses to read. Granted, it's all about the server Bulldozer CPU's but it's a good way to see how the desktop version will perform.

Honestly though, there's no hard information out there. You won't see benchmarks for quite sometime which is fine for me but it should perform awesomely and will hopefully be priced accordingly. However, since Intel has been the first to market with their SB chips, you'll probably see some really high prices when they first hit the market and then drop to stabilize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Ok - I'll sum it up with this:

AMD offers best bang for buck simply because they are forced to since their products are inferior, otherwise, they would be priced a lot higher, as shown by their history. ( $1000 dual core, $700 5970 )

Selling inferior products cheaply is clearly not good for business as shown by Intel's & Nvidia's worth vs AMD's.

For AMD's and all our sake, I sure hope BD delivers.
When speaking about desktop machines, technically speaking, their products aren't inferior. They just don't benchmark as well as their competition. Although, in that regard, you compare items at the same price level in terms of performance. AMD has done a great job of getting the Triple and Quad core to the masses of the world while not charging them an arm, leg, testicle, etc. to get it. Also, one big big big big big thing that everyone here on this site has forgotten is that we are the minority of desktop users. The majority wouldn't know how well a CPU benchmarks compared to another.

One big thing I would like to point out is that, regardless of how it may seem, none of us sit around on our desktops running benchmarks 24/7. My Athlon II 630 may not compete with an i7 920 in benchmarks but it doesn't have to either. My build cost me less than the just the motherboard and processor for an i7 build and that's okay with me. I get all the performance I need while remaining power efficient and the biggest factor for me was cooling. I needed a CPU that wouldn't turn my room into a freaking oven all Summer long. All my programs open very fast and my encoding finishes really quick and half the time I don't even realize when my archives have finished extracting because it happens so fast.
Edited by KamuiRSX - 2/3/11 at 11:35pm
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post #40 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Ok - I'll sum it up with this:

AMD offers best bang for buck simply because they are forced to since their products are inferior, otherwise, they would be priced a lot higher, as shown by their history. ( $1000 dual core, $700 5970 )

Selling inferior products cheaply is clearly not good for business as shown by Intel's & Nvidia's worth vs AMD's.

For AMD's and all our sake, I sure hope BD delivers. If BD does deliver, I will be among the first to build a BD rig.
Look at Walmart. They sell low quality goods, and yet they are much bigger than Target, which is a laughable comparison really as Target is only a competitor in principle. But like I said, this is off topic and has nothing to do with our discussion. We agree that AMD offers value and we are both looking forward to what BD has to offer, whether it will live up to expectations or not. In the end, both camps, regardless of whether one is from AMD or Intel, will benefit if bulldozer does well. Competition is good.
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