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[BBC]Sony scores against PlayStation 3 hacker - Page 20  

post #191 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death;12208434 
...

Be that as it may, I think he handled it properly.

Sony made the first move by removing the other OS function. GeoHot retaliated, and rather than give Sony the chance to cover up the knowledge, he released it to the public.

Besides, it's true that this would be a much simpler matter if Sony gave him the job rather than throwing this hissy fit. What GeoHot did was legal [an there is legal precedent about unlocking devices], and Sony is abusing the law to try and make an example of him, when all they're doing is making him a martyr.

He did do the right thing, you are right, there was no "extortion".

Extortion:
The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18

The Hobbs Act defines "extortion" as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right." 18 U.S.C. S 1951(b)(2).
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e073.htm

What you are describing would follow more along blackmail, you do what I want or else scenario. All the information and tools he used to get the hack done were 100% legal. He didn't use any criminal means to gain the knowledge, nor did he use any criminal means to ask Sony for a job. He simply embarrassed them publicly, told them the mistake, and how he got there. He did NOT use extortion by any definition.
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post #192 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
After 'debating' with him in a different thread, I've come to the conclusion that he's a



Sure, he has an opinion, but unless he's 10 he knows [or ought to know] that having an opinion and stating your opinion as fact are two different shades of two totally different colors.



Be that as it may, I think he handled it properly.

Sony made the first move by removing the other OS function. GeoHot retaliated, and rather than give Sony the chance to cover up the knowledge, he released it to the public.

Besides, it's true that this would be a much simpler matter if Sony gave him the job rather than throwing this hissy fit. What GeoHot did was legal [an there is legal precedent about unlocking devices], and Sony is abusing the law to try and make an example of him, when all they're doing is making him a martyr.
I'm not a troll nor 10 years old. I've provided sources of court cases that fits everything argued in here. My attitude has been terrible, yeah. I've explained why. In those other threads, I've said the same thing, linked to the same content, etc. Everyone grasps for straws because they want Geo to win for irrational reasons. Following the "cool" crowd, Sony represents the corporate world, Geo is just a kid etc etc. The facts show, Sony has a right to do this, and the whining is useless.
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post #193 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by eseb1 View Post
Back up hard drives, reformat with hammer installed hard drives, give to Sony.
fixed
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post #194 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I'm not a troll nor 10 years old. I've provided sources of court cases that fits everything argued in here. My attitude has been terrible, yeah. I've explained why. In those other threads, I've said the same thing, linked to the same content, etc. Everyone grasps for straws because they want Geo to win for irrational reasons. Following the "cool" crowd, Sony represents the corporate world, Geo is just a kid etc etc. The facts show, Sony has a right to do this, and the whining is useless.
What Sony is doing is not a right.
post #195 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I'm not a troll nor 10 years old. I've provided sources of court cases that fits everything argued in here. My attitude has been terrible, yeah. I've explained why. In those other threads, I've said the same thing, linked to the same content, etc. Everyone grasps for straws because they want Geo to win for irrational reasons. Following the "cool" crowd, Sony represents the corporate world, Geo is just a kid etc etc. The facts show, Sony has a right to do this, and the whining is useless.
Yeah, sorry, but that isn't going to cut it.

It's no use admitting fault, explaining why you did what you did, then carrying on.

You'll get a lot further and have many lend you their ears if you stop posting offensive and aggressive things.



As for blackmail or extortion? I think a lot of people sharing those remarks need a lesson in hacking. There are two types of hackers, criminal and ethical. Criminal hackers use their skills for illegal gains, such as stealing money or information (in exchange for money) whereas an ethical hacker could be someone writing code for Unix based systems testing security and finding new flaws. Without BOTH those people we wouldn't have much of the technology we have today.

Ethical hackers often land jobs as reward for their work. Such as the iPhone hacker who Rick Rolled a few thousand people. He met with Apple, then landed a job developing apps. Or this guy, who now works for DARPA.


People need to stop likening GeoHOT to this fellow because they are two totally different people. It is offensive and stupid to claim he's a criminal, that he tried to blackmail them or extort them. He released the files as PROOF that it can be done, then approached Sony. By the damn book. Anyone with proof regarding otherwise should post it or get out.
    
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post #196 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt5 View Post
A precedent for someone distributing a hack that specifically does not lead to anything illegal (He did not allow piracy in his hack, even if that will come eventually from someone else) and then a company being granted a restraining order on the person and gaining access to his hardware?
(You attributed that quote to the wrong person...this is a response to my comment.)

That is spin of the highest order. You are pre-biasing, pre-judging, or phrasing this to match the outcome you believe should exist.

The precedent that I am speaking of simply this: someone stands accused of violating the DMCA, the complainant files suit, and a court order is issued requiring evidence to be turned over to investigate the complaint.

See how very different those two statements are? Mine is bland, dry, legal, and unbiased. Yours, not so much.

Quote:
The closest example in recent history to that would be the iPhone jailbreaking thing and we all know how that turned out. I still don't understand how Sony just got away with this... and can't he just appeal it?
"Recent" history is not all that matters...history matters. You said there was no precedent...I find that hard to believe, given that the DMCA is about 10 years old now. And heck, precedent doesn't even have to be tied to this specific law; if there is any law used as the grounds for similar search-and-seizure behavior, a legal argument could be made that it is a precedent. So I say again, I would be shocked if there was no precedent.

And I believe I did note that the recent jailbreaking argument would be an interesting defense. Especially if there is an older, seemingly conflicting precedent...that's the kind of thing that gets you bumped up the court system, eventually to the Supreme Court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mygaffer View Post
Breaking DRM for research purposes has been exempted by the Library of Congress, which I think will have an impact on Sony's case.
Whoa, I think that's too broad a statement. The exemption is specifically for achival purposes as I recall, and IIRC is based on the fact that working equipment to run the software as intended is not readily available. So for example, it's perfectly legal for scholars (or whatever) to crack an Apple ][ software package for archive and research because one cannot simply walk down to Wal-Mart and buy an Apple ][ these days.

Quote:
Anyway, I don't think Sony can win this I think they just want to hassle Hotz and anyone else involved to scare them off this type of thing in the future.
Yes to the FUD rationale. Not so sure about not being able to win...the DMCA is a draconian law, and it makes winning cases like this quite possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by r34p3rex View Post
You know what's funny? By pulling this stunt, Sony will piss off even more nerds and gave them a reason to seek revenge. This "restraining order" will accomplish nothing except speed up the development of piracy related tools
QFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt5 View Post
Your allowed to emulate it if you have the system bios and the games.
Another bit if misinformation, a half-truth. To be clear, software emulators themselves are perfectly legal, as long as the software was written from scratch. And if you have a legally obtained ROM/BIOS, then yes, you can run that software on the emulator.

But where people assume too much, and you imply as much here, is thinking that you simply have to "have" the ROM/BIOS. How you obtain that ROM/BIOS is where the legality/illegality is determined. For older, pre-DMCA machines that did not really have DRM to begin with except for being on proprietary hardware, people with the know-how and the right equipment could certainly extract the ROMs/BIOS for themselves and not be crossing any legal lines. But as we know, that's not how 99.9% of the world gets their ROMs...they get them online. No matter how you slice it, distributing a copyrighted ROM/BIOS, or downloading them from someone who is distributing them, is a violation of the original copyright.

Now post-DMCA (2001), forget about it. The very act of ripping a PS2 disc, for example, violates the DMCA prohibition against cracking copy protection.

To be clear, I'm not preaching or under any belief that this knowledge will dissuade anyone from doing what they're going to do. I'm not your father, I have my own kids to teach wrong from right...you're on your own for that. But I do want to make sure people are not misinformed.
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post #197 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubnotub1 View Post
This. There are programs out there that write 0's and 1's to the hard drive multiple times in order to ensure any data that was on the hard drive is no longer recoverable. Either way, it probably would not be in his best interest to do so considering it virtually amounts to an admission of guild. Well, that and I would imagine that any judge/jury would not look to highly on the defendant tampering with evidence prior to the trial.
It's not evidence yet, and if it were it's a conflict of interest for him to be in possession of it for any amount of time. And it's not even close to an admission of anything.

And there's no point loading his machine with virus's, the machine isn't going to Sony for inspection. Again that would be a conflict of interest.
Edited by OwnedINC - 1/31/11 at 7:24am
post #198 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
Yeah, sorry, but that isn't going to cut it.

It's no use admitting fault, explaining why you did what you did, then carrying on.

You'll get a lot further and have many lend you their ears if you stop posting offensive and aggressive things.
Geo admitted, explained, and carried on ;D.

I haven't been offensive to anyone. Please, someone quote me offending someone, I'd love to see it. Apparently, telling someone that the majority of the population who obtain roms for emulators obtain them via illegal methods is somehow calling them stupid in a really angry way.
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post #199 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
Everyone grasps for straws because they want Geo to win for irrational reasons.
Yes. Everyone who holds a different view on a subject than the one you choose is irrational.

Like I said: Troll.
post #200 of 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mushroomboy View Post
He did do the right thing, you are right, there was no "extortion".

Extortion:
The use, or the express or implicit threat of the use, of violence or other criminal means to cause harm to person, reputation, or property as a means to obtain property from someone else with his consent. USC 18
He threatened Sony's property. Thank you for proving my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
Be that as it may, I think he handled it properly.

Sony made the first move by removing the other OS function. GeoHot retaliated, and rather than give Sony the chance to cover up the knowledge, he released it to the public.

Besides, it's true that this would be a much simpler matter if Sony gave him the job rather than throwing this hissy fit. What GeoHot did was legal [an there is legal precedent about unlocking devices], and Sony is abusing the law to try and make an example of him, when all they're doing is making him a martyr.
What Sony did was supported by law, what Geohot did is not. That is the difference.
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