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[JS] Official PS3 Firmware v3.56 Has A Rootkit. - Page 5

post #41 of 146
Quote:
I thought a server waited for a proper response from the rootkit of a connecting machine, not the rootkit polling the server. How would removing it work around the issue?

The link indicates forging a response is not an option, though I don't understand why.
The reason you can't spoof the rootkit is because when you connect to PSN it polls the server for the code to run. The code it runs is external from the system and can be changed without notice. Therefore there's no way to spoof it with any kind of consistency.

However, this only stops access to PSN while running CFW. Not CFW itself.


Edit: If you want CFW and PSN just man up and buy a second PS3. Most of us have probably spent more on just a graphics card upgrade anyways.
AMD, I give up.
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AMD, I give up.
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post #42 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by _02 View Post
And for the EULA, I suppose you all consider those 9 paragraph long disclaimers on infomercials and 100 page long contracts for MP3 players are completely fair too.
Have you read it? I just did in 10 minutes. The PS3 Software Licensing T&C's are very short and concise.

http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html
post #43 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
And are you allowed to? What does the licensing agreement say when you bought the console? The EULA is a legally binding document after all!
However, laws can override EULA.

In the US, Fair Use can overrides DCMA and EULA in specific cases: http://www.centerforsocialmedia.org/...victories-dmca

Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyGano View Post
Stealing copyrighted software titles is illegal. Regardless of that, Sony presented every person who bought a PS3 with a license agreement when they first turned the unit on that states what they allow in its use as well as their right to modify it. So I think they also have the right to prevent use of it as they see fit.


EDIT:
Woah! Hive mind, I posted this then scrolled up and saw about 3 other people bringing up the EULA.


Sony also should be aware that most people, especially those who hack and modify consoles, know that modifying software and hardware is against nearly all EULAs.
However, you can not use the arguement of: something may facilitate a crime so itself must be a crime to use.

See Torrenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
Last I checked, it's illegal to reverse engineer software in order to exploit it.

And the whole wagon thing. Yeah, those are great analogies. A tool vs. an entertainment device.
It is illegal to reverse engineer software: http://www.ll.georgetown.edu/federal...s/01-1108.html

However, is it illegal for someone to use a crack from it? I believe this is still a gray area. However, DRM cracks are legal: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/drm...one,10944.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Tough luck to them! What I am getting at is that DuckieHo doesn't quite know how to differentiate his desire and opinions from actual legality.

I see the word "should" banded around a lot!
Legally, you can do whatever you want with the hardware as you purchase the hardware even though you license the software.

Alex, I know a bit about law.... and I know it is not black and whitd with DRM.
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post #44 of 146
So, Duckie, what you are saying is that in fact... no one is right. You aren't legally correct, but neither is Sony.

If that's the case... oh lord, this thread will go on forever
post #45 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Have you read it? I just did in 10 minutes. The PS3 Software Licensing T&C's are very short and concise.

http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html
I have now, however my statement was more on EULA and contracts in general.

I'm not talking about the facts of the EULA, I'm talking about the validity of the claims in it.
    
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post #46 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
So, Duckie, what you are saying is that in fact... no one is right. You aren't legally correct, but neither is Sony.

If that's the case... oh lord, this thread will go on forever

If you want to use PSN, then you must follow Sony's rules. That is correct.


However, cracking/rootkits/etc can fall into legal gray area as there is not enough case history to set clear precedent. The courts have not carved out the rules of the game so until there are enough cases to define what is exactly allowed or not.... there is no clear legal answer. Right now, you can probably create all types of example cases that would challenge the law.


A good example was Fair Use vs DMCA. Fair Use says you can make a copy of media for personal use. DMCA says you cannot bypass copyright protections. It took 11 years before the courts declare that you are allowed to crack DRM on media that you own.

There are quite a few different legal issues being mentioned here... I hope I covered them seperately enough and injected my opinion/understanding on them.
Edited by DuckieHo - 2/2/11 at 11:24am
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post #47 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Haha. This will be interesting. When the homebrew stuff came out everyone said there is no way for Sony to stop it, nothing can be done. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this.
The most this will let them do is ban you from PSN...Which was bound to happen anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeWhoDared View Post
Eh. I guess one could argue invasion of privacy, but go ahead Sony. I don't care if you were to check my console, I have not nothing to hide lol.
With privacy, it is better to be against people invading it completely, even if you have zero to hide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superste2201 View Post
Microsoft xbox 360 firmware has the exact same system. Funny I didn't see loads of commotion about that.
Because not many people thought that there was one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GibbyGano View Post
You're going to have to explain what you are getting at with this. Are you saying that the PS3 should be a computer?


EDIT:
For the sake of frickfrock99's sanity:
/wagon analogies.
He wants to hack his PS3, not for piracy, probably the heck of it, the PS3 is also a great media center and I know I'm not the only one who rips their DVD collection into mkv files as it's just plain easier than finding which DVD you want, etc.
There's also Linux support, improved performance in the OS, etc, there's many other reasons to hack the PS3 firmware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
And are you allowed to? What does the licensing agreement say when you bought the console? The EULA is a legally binding document after all!
Wrong, EULA's are overturned many a time by the court, the most the EULA can legally do is perma ban me off PSN, I paid for the console (No, I am not renting it.).

As stated, if I hack my PS3 to have Linux on it or more file types supported, yes, Sony can legally ban me off PSN (I broke the EULA, so they can stop providing their service to me), but it doesn't mean its illegal and that they can come and take my PS3 away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
Last I checked, it's illegal to reverse engineer software in order to exploit it.

And the whole wagon thing. Yeah, those are great analogies. A tool vs. an entertainment device.
Maybe in America, there's other countries where it isn't so, it's not illegal to put said exploits on a video game console or PC though.

Okay, here's a better one, this is like MS putting a rootkit in every Windows PC's BIOS/UEFI that automatically tells them when you install Linux, BSD, OS X, etc.

I bought the hardware, let me do what I want to the software, I don't care about PSN or any of those features, I barely use my PS3 for games any more.
    
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post #48 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
I bought the hardware, let me do what I want to the software, I don't care about PSN or any of those features, I barely use my PS3 for games any more.
I think that's fair... except you're not just using the hardware to run modified code, you're actually using reverse-engineered code to exploit the operating system on the PS3, so you can do whatever you want (pirate, cheat, who knows, doesn't matter).

Now, if you bought the hardware and ran Linux or an OS like XBMC, that's your choice. Fact of the matter is, Sony doesn't want you exploiting the OS on the PS3 to do whatever you want to do.
post #49 of 146
I dont believe Sony included the rootkit in 3.56. I personally believe it's been there for a long time now.

Sony has said before that they do monitor PS3 usage and always have. Not just online PSN store stuff, but what you actually do with your PS3. The PS3 logs, for example, when you play a bluray movie or use Hulu or play music. It's been doing this for awhile now.

I'm sure they've always had some sort of "admin-controller" type remote access to execute commands for all PS3s for awhile.
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post #50 of 146
Meh this doesnt bother me, my PS3 is legit. But although it is infringing on privacy, its needed to keep these hackers at bay.
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