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[Destructoid] Oh no, sixty dollars for eight hours? Just ... shut up - Page 13

post #121 of 144
They are saying quantity over quality is bad, but they didn't produce enough quantity to qualify to be quality...

Even games like Battlefield Bad Company 2, which is rather short offline, unless you are playing on HARD, lack true quality, though graphics are wow, there are enough annoyances in the game to make you want to scream, then you play online and want to scream non-stop... (Hackers/cheaters everywhere)

When we look at games like Grand Theft Auto IV, which was definitely quality, it had a lot of length to it...

Neverwinter Nights, another insanely lengthy game, which has user created content as well, though it's much older, was very high quality, and even still is, despite it's old graphics (it's over 10 years old now).

Dragon Age Origins was awesome, wasn't too short, and had very high quality graphics.

So, if a game maker wants to complain that people are calling their game a fail, maybe they should look at the reason why...

Gamers are comparing the newer games older games, and if it's not on par with say WOW, GTA, or any other genre game that was top notch, well, they are going to complain, and yes they have every right to.

I'm a gaming programmer, it's not like it's hard to make the coding for games, many games that come out don't have too much coding compared to the games I have code in, whoosh! Not to mention a lot of code is simply reusable, especially in series of games. Graphic Design / 3D Modeling however can take a lot of time and money to produce, nevertheless, I think what game makers fail to understand is, it's not so much about the graphics, its about how fun it is and how much replay the game has.

We can see that Farmville, duck hunt, and a few other poor graphic games are or were a huge success, mainly because they were fun, and when you compare some simplistic game like those to newer games, and they don't stack up, well, there is a serious problem..

As far as game length, every game has to have a certain amount of replay value, if it's not, it's not worth creating to begin with, this is why online gaming is huge.

I think the article is a cop-out to the truth, or do they think us gamers are stupid?

Make a better game and they will buy it infinitely, make a short game with 0 replay value and nobody will want it, worse than that, it may die shortly after launch due to a bad reputation. Gamers are the consumers & customers, and if you don't know the first rule of business, then maybe you shouldn't be in business.

1) The customer is ALWAYS right.
Edited by _GTech - 2/3/11 at 8:54pm
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post #122 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by CryWin View Post
I always buy games for the single player content.. I don't even play multiplayer until i'm finished with the single player.
I do pretty much every game that way. I've owned most of the good shooters and have always played through the campaign before jumping online.
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post #123 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by slipstream808 View Post
You have a good point there but maybe that is how he plays games. Or maybe this particular game gives him this feeling whereby this - much quicker than your - fast paced experience is correct for him. What he gets out of it is what he gets out of it and it isn't necessarily wrong. Apparently its just too short.
I understand what you're saying but with a game like Dead Space - no. You're playing it wrong. lol

The point of the game is to not run. It's to face your fears and strategically fight monsters. If anyone is beating the game in 4-6 hours, then you're not fighting but instead running and/or just spamming same weapons over and over again because they "work". Therefore - you're cheating yourself out of $60 and claiming the game is "too short for you." Yet, you haven't even used 3/4 of the weapons or kill methods the game has to offer you. Nor do you have anything to say for the incredible story you probably passed up. Getting the "gist" of a game like Dead Space isn't justifiable for you to say the "game is too short".

Some games, like say Halo, are short merely because sometimes they're devised for you to run through them. Halo, you're supposed to be super soldiers or Rambo in space. That is the point of it whether you want to believe that or not. You're not really supposed to walk through Halo levels unless... you want to and that's your gameplay style.

Dead Space is not. It's the exact opposite and it requires you to take your time.
The game doesn't force you to walk through it all the time though. Not because it wants you to have the choice of running through it - but if the game had "quarantine" lock downs or required hacking minigames every other room that forces you to face your fears then no one would like the game.

There is an interview here I have in the limited edition game guide (buy them merely for aesthetics and cool stuff, like the 100 pages they have in here) that has the art director saying that he wishes that people would take their time in the game to see all the art that goes into the game to create this atmosphere. He knows that no one is going to simply walk through the game and stop every couple of steps to admire small details but he doesn't want people running through the game as if on a time limit.
He also mentions it,"Probably not [in response to the question about people appreciating alot of the work] but this can be a virtue in itself because people love to feel like there's more going on than they can take in easily, that there are layers of storytelling and detail for them to investigate if they want..."
Anyone who rushes through the game and ignores those layers of storytelling and detail cannot sit here and legitimately say that the game is too short. It's not fair, plain and simple, and anyone who wants to sit and complain about the game not being short needs to take a trip through the incredible game again.

/rant



Quote:
When we look at games like Grand Theft Auto IV, which was definitely quality, it had a lot of length to it...


Neverwinter Nights, another insanely lengthy game, which has user created content as well, though it's much older, was very high quality, and even still is, despite it's old graphics (it's over 10 years old now).

Dragon Age Origins was awesome, wasn't too short, and had very high quality graphics.
Sandbox games and RPGs are seriously hard to even be considered in comparison to alot of the games in question here. You just can't do it. Those games are designed with length and variation as goals/requirements rather than actual additional bonuses if need be.

A game like Dead Space doesn't need to be stretched out further than it has in it's story arc. Dead Space 1 did alot of BS crap to string the player along. That was the number one problem of the game: you just went from problem to problem to problem as if the story writers were just coming up with multiple ways to make Isaac have to do miscellanous crap just so the game didnt have to end.

Dead Space 2 fixes specifically and actually gives reason to alot of the problems you have to do. And honestly, it's just right. Not a problem more or less that you have to fix out of the comfort range. The devs could've tacked on another 2 or 3 hours worth of gameplay that simply strung the player along but that wouldn't have been necessary.
That and they give you plenty of reason to play through it again.
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 2/3/11 at 10:06pm
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post #124 of 144
I paid $40 for The Sly Cooper Collection about a month or two ago, and am just about finished with Sly 3 (I only have ~5 more missions to go). Been playing for more than 30 hours, so definitely getting my money's worth out of it...

However, I would have to comment about the newer games. I honestly am getting bored to death of Sly Cooper. My attention span doesn't really last more than 6-8 hours for a game nowadays anyways. 4-6 hours is just too short IMO, and 8-10 hours for a game is just about perfect without making the game boring.

Video games work similar to books. If the book is too long, you risk the audience loosing interest, and thus putting the book down if there are slow parts of the book. The same applies to video games. If companies fill in games with slow parts just to make the game longer, then you really lose the whole aspect of a quality video game. Back in the old days, games used to take a lot longer to complete, but then again, they were filled with a lot of empty game play in most cases, I would rather play 8-10 hours of action packed game play, vs 15+ hours of shallow worthlessness.
Edited by xxicrimsonixx - 2/3/11 at 10:29pm
     
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post #125 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxicrimsonixx View Post
I paid $40 for The Sly Cooper Collection about a month or two ago, and am just about finished with Sly 3 (I only have ~5 more missions to go). Been playing for more than 30 hours, so definitely getting my money's worth out of it...

However, I would have to comment about the newer games. I honestly am getting bored to death of Sly Cooper. My attention span doesn't really last more than 6-8 hours for a game nowadays anyways. 4-6 hours is just too short IMO, and 8-10 hours for a game is just about perfect without making the game boring.

Video games work similar to books. If the book is too long, you risk the audience loosing interest, and thus putting the book down if there are slow parts of the book. The same applies to video games. If companies fill in games with slow parts just to make the game longer, then you really lose the whole aspect of a quality video game. Back in the old days, games used to take a lot longer to complete, but then again, they were filled with a lot of empty game play in most cases, I would rather play 8-10 hours of action packed game play, vs 15+ hours of shallow worthlessness.
It really depended on the game. For example Metal Gear Solid had me so attached to the story I just kept playing and playing, and not a single moment was I bored or lost intrest. Same thing with Half-life.

I don't understand how developers can put so much time and money into completing an engine, only to make a short campaign that takes a few hours. That's like somebody running a marathon and then giving up 100 meters from the end..
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post #126 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
I understand what you're saying but with a game like Dead Space - no. You're playing it wrong. lol

The point of the game is to not run. It's to face your fears and strategically fight monsters. If anyone is beating the game in 4-6 hours, then you're not fighting but instead running and/or just spamming same weapons over and over again because they "work". Therefore - you're cheating yourself out of $60 and claiming the game is "too short for you." Yet, you haven't even used 3/4 of the weapons or kill methods the game has to offer you. Nor do you have anything to say for the incredible story you probably passed up. Getting the "gist" of a game like Dead Space isn't justifiable for you to say the "game is too short".

Some games, like say Halo, are short merely because sometimes they're devised for you to run through them. Halo, you're supposed to be super soldiers or Rambo in space. That is the point of it whether you want to believe that or not. You're not really supposed to walk through Halo levels unless... you want to and that's your gameplay style.

Dead Space is not. It's the exact opposite and it requires you to take your time.
The game doesn't force you to walk through it all the time though. Not because it wants you to have the choice of running through it - but if the game had "quarantine" lock downs or required hacking minigames every other room that forces you to face your fears then no one would like the game.

There is an interview here I have in the limited edition game guide (buy them merely for aesthetics and cool stuff, like the 100 pages they have in here) that has the art director saying that he wishes that people would take their time in the game to see all the art that goes into the game to create this atmosphere. He knows that no one is going to simply walk through the game and stop every couple of steps to admire small details but he doesn't want people running through the game as if on a time limit.
He also mentions it,"Probably not [in response to the question about people appreciating alot of the work] but this can be a virtue in itself because people love to feel like there's more going on than they can take in easily, that there are layers of storytelling and detail for them to investigate if they want..."
Anyone who rushes through the game and ignores those layers of storytelling and detail cannot sit here and legitimately say that the game is too short. It's not fair, plain and simple, and anyone who wants to sit and complain about the game not being short needs to take a trip through the incredible game again.

/rant





Sandbox games and RPGs are seriously hard to even be considered in comparison to alot of the games in question here. You just can't do it. Those games are designed with length and variation as goals/requirements rather than actual additional bonuses if need be.

A game like Dead Space doesn't need to be stretched out further than it has in it's story arc. Dead Space 1 did alot of BS crap to string the player along. That was the number one problem of the game: you just went from problem to problem to problem as if the story writers were just coming up with multiple ways to make Isaac have to do miscellanous crap just so the game didnt have to end.

Dead Space 2 fixes specifically and actually gives reason to alot of the problems you have to do. And honestly, it's just right. Not a problem more or less that you have to fix out of the comfort range. The devs could've tacked on another 2 or 3 hours worth of gameplay that simply strung the player along but that wouldn't have been necessary.
That and they give you plenty of reason to play through it again.
I paid $50 for Dead Space and I don't feel cheated, I played that game 3-4 times. Great game, worth every cent. Imo.
post #127 of 144
You know, I have to come back to this thread and say that I just did this for Dead Space 2. I've heard the campaign is only around 8 hours, but the game itself makes it worth it to me. Not to mention I shelled out extra for the Collector's Edition. Best $80 I've spent on a game next to Fallout: New Vegas Collector's Edition.

EDIT:


Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaNemesis28 View Post
I understand what you're saying but with a game like Dead Space - no. You're playing it wrong. lol

The point of the game is to not run. It's to face your fears and strategically fight monsters. If anyone is beating the game in 4-6 hours, then you're not fighting but instead running and/or just spamming same weapons over and over again because they "work". Therefore - you're cheating yourself out of $60 and claiming the game is "too short for you." Yet, you haven't even used 3/4 of the weapons or kill methods the game has to offer you. Nor do you have anything to say for the incredible story you probably passed up. Getting the "gist" of a game like Dead Space isn't justifiable for you to say the "game is too short".

Some games, like say Halo, are short merely because sometimes they're devised for you to run through them. Halo, you're supposed to be super soldiers or Rambo in space. That is the point of it whether you want to believe that or not. You're not really supposed to walk through Halo levels unless... you want to and that's your gameplay style.

Dead Space is not. It's the exact opposite and it requires you to take your time.
The game doesn't force you to walk through it all the time though. Not because it wants you to have the choice of running through it - but if the game had "quarantine" lock downs or required hacking minigames every other room that forces you to face your fears then no one would like the game.

There is an interview here I have in the limited edition game guide (buy them merely for aesthetics and cool stuff, like the 100 pages they have in here) that has the art director saying that he wishes that people would take their time in the game to see all the art that goes into the game to create this atmosphere. He knows that no one is going to simply walk through the game and stop every couple of steps to admire small details but he doesn't want people running through the game as if on a time limit.
He also mentions it,"Probably not [in response to the question about people appreciating alot of the work] but this can be a virtue in itself because people love to feel like there's more going on than they can take in easily, that there are layers of storytelling and detail for them to investigate if they want..."
Anyone who rushes through the game and ignores those layers of storytelling and detail cannot sit here and legitimately say that the game is too short. It's not fair, plain and simple, and anyone who wants to sit and complain about the game not being short needs to take a trip through the incredible game again.

/rant

Sandbox games and RPGs are seriously hard to even be considered in comparison to alot of the games in question here. You just can't do it. Those games are designed with length and variation as goals/requirements rather than actual additional bonuses if need be.

A game like Dead Space doesn't need to be stretched out further than it has in it's story arc. Dead Space 1 did alot of BS crap to string the player along. That was the number one problem of the game: you just went from problem to problem to problem as if the story writers were just coming up with multiple ways to make Isaac have to do miscellanous crap just so the game didnt have to end.

Dead Space 2 fixes specifically and actually gives reason to alot of the problems you have to do. And honestly, it's just right. Not a problem more or less that you have to fix out of the comfort range. The devs could've tacked on another 2 or 3 hours worth of gameplay that simply strung the player along but that wouldn't have been necessary.
That and they give you plenty of reason to play through it again.
I actually feel the same way about other games and the same about Dead Space (so far, as I haven't finished it) as you've said in your rant. When I play a game that people finish in 8 hours, I usually end up spending another 4-6 hours than them because I always play on the hardest difficulty possible, and I take my time finishing the story, unless of course I literally do have a time limit for something.

Also, I recognize the complaints in Dead Space that you have with it, and I just purchased the Dead Space 2 Collector's Edition. I won't open the actual game until I finish the first one, but it's nice to know that it's an even better than the first game, which I'm already having a blast with. PC Gamer liked the game, and glad to hear other forum members are having the same amount of fun with it .
Edited by pez - 2/5/11 at 10:05am
 
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post #128 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post

Even games like Battlefield Bad Company 2, which is rather short offline, unless you are playing on HARD, lack true quality, though graphics are wow, there are enough annoyances in the game to make you want to scream, then you play online and want to scream non-stop... (Hackers/cheaters everywhere)
What servers are you playing on ? People that were cheating were insta kicked after joining the servers I have been on.
    
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post #129 of 144
one word will shut these people up.

PORTAL
post #130 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Somenamehere View Post
What servers are you playing on ? People that were cheating were insta kicked after joining the servers I have been on.
LOL thats because they had a PRIOR ban/kick, not because they were cheating and the game just "knew" it before they even played. Generally, they dont get a ban unless done so by an actual admin.
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