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2500K? or upgrade current system to phenom II x6 - Page 3

post #21 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;12259441 
Bulldozer will be slower than SB per core
proof.gif
Even if you are correct:
According to AMD Zambezi should still match the 2600K's performance.....
And since it will use CMT instead of SMT for multi-threading (which is vastly more powerful), the chips wont need to have as high of clocks.
    
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post #22 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBalanceOX;12259702 
proof.gif
Even if you are correct:
According to AMD Zambezi should still match the 2600K's performance.....
And since it will use CMT instead of SMT for multi-threading (which is vastly more powerful), the chips wont need to have as high of clocks.

According to AMD their 8 core chip will match a 4 core chip with HT?

Props to them I guess...

What kind of proof should I provide? I have a lot of screens and benchmarks I did with my 1090T, anything in particular you'd like to see?
    
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post #23 of 119
kookoo.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;12259441 
Bulldozer will be slower than SB per core, we're talking about AMD here... Their idea of revolutionary is "how can we make these chips cheaper so we make more money selling our high end x6 for $200!??!?!".

Also do not concern yourself over core count as a gamer, 2011 is gonna cost too much and not warrant the cost like 1366 did, and bulldozer will be slower than sb.


Edit: Buy a i5, upgrade in two years when faster thread performance comes out, skip x6 and x8 chips this round for sure, nothing will be using the extra cores right now anyways. Buying a high end computer is like buying a $40,000 car, sure it's cool, but the next years model is cooler and yours isn't wroth as much as it was when you bough it.
^ Just get out troll.All your reasons for going SB is exactly the reason he shouldn't upgrade to SB.Playing games,an upgrade to SB would be a complete waste.Benchmarking would be different.Then you state AMD's can't run dual cards well-but SB doesn't even offer a dual PCIe16x lanes!
Edited by Redwoodz - 2/4/11 at 9:52am
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post #24 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by beers;12259674 
Seriously, stop making baseless claims and passing them off as facts.
Agreed.
If you don't absolutely know for sure, don't post like you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redwoodz;12259820 
kookoo.gif
^ Just get out troll.All your reasons for going SB is exactly the reason he shouldn't upgrade to SB.Playing games,an upgrade to SB would be a complete waste.Benchmarking would be different.

I don't understand why people like him hate on things they don't have or fully understand.
Edited by amstech - 2/4/11 at 9:52am
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post #25 of 119
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/186?vs=288


Yah no reason to upgrade to a $226 cpu, my bad on that.. He should buy 3 gtx 580s and watch his gpu usage max out around 35%!
    
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post #26 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;12259809 
According to AMD their 8 core chip will match a 4 core chip with HT?

Props to them I guess...

What kind of proof should I provide? I have a lot of screens and benchmarks I did with my 1090T, anything in particular you'd like to see?
While there will technically be 8 cores its more similar to a 4 core with HT than a true 8 core chip as there will be 4 modules with 2 cores per module, each module will act like a single core with HT but it will run two thread in a truly simultaneous fashion
If you actually understood how a microprocessor worked you would understand this
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;12259882 
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/186?vs=288


Yah no reason to upgrade to a $226 cpu, my bad on that.. He should buy 3 gtx 580s and watch his gpu usage max out around 35%!
that benchmark followed by that comment makes no sense
Edited by OutOfBalanceOX - 2/4/11 at 11:38am
    
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post #27 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBalanceOX;12261108 
While there will technically be 8 cores its more similar to a 4 core with HT than a true 8 core chip as there will be 4 modules with 2 cores per module, each module will act like a single core with HT but it will run two thread in a truly simultaneous fashion
If you actually understood how a microprocessor worked you would understand this

lol wrong, not even close bro. Each "module" has 2 integer pipelines, and 2 fp 128 bit pipelines. You can't simply break a thread and run it down two integer cores, it doesn't work that way. You'd know that if you knew how microprocessors worked. Each "module" shares two 128 bit FP pipelines, that pipeline can be combined to 256 bit which is what SB has. But it will be less capable "per core" for FP calculations.

All AMD has done is reduce the product cost and increase scalability. It in no way increases performance.

To farther illustrate how far off you are; per JF_AMD: Paraphrasing from memory here "Ignore modules, thats an engineering term there are 4 modules, however windows will see 8 cores, and programs will see 8 cores."

It's nothing like HT. For each "core" there is a integer pipeline, unlike HT were there is only one integer pipeline for two threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOfBalanceOX;12261108 
that benchmark followed by that comment makes no sense

It make sense to anyone who really notices things, and understands information that is being presented to them.

AMD chips are too slow to push high end gpus in 2 core usage games, even a single mid-high end card will bottleneck under the best situations with an AMD cpu. While this isn't a huge deal, who wants to lose performance of their GPU because of their cpu? Meanwhile using more than one gpu on an AMD setup compounds the issue, you start tossing money at the wall known as your processor?


It is what it is, its not like you can't game on an AMD system, but if you want the most out of your system you either need a old gpu or an Intel based system.



You need to step up your fanboyism, Intel people shouldn't be telling you how bulldozer works.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 2/4/11 at 12:35pm
    
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post #28 of 119
Phenom II x6! biggrin.gif Price drop btw tongue.gif
post #29 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared;12261687 
lol wrong, not even close bro. Each "module" has 2 integer pipelines, and 2 fp 128 bit pipelines. You can't simply break a thread and run it down two integer cores, it doesn't work that way. You'd know that if you knew how microprocessors worked. Each "module" shares two 128 bit FP pipelines, that pipeline can be combined to 256 bit which is what SB has. But it will be less capable "per core" for FP calculations.

All AMD has done is reduce the product cost and increase scalability. It in no way increases performance.

To farther illustrate how far off you are; per JF_AMD: Paraphrasing from memory here "Ignore modules, thats an engineering term there are 4 modules, however windows will see 8 cores, and programs will see 8 cores."

It's nothing like HT. For each "core" there is a integer pipeline, unlike HT were there is only one integer pipeline for two threads.



It make sense to anyone who really notices things, and understands information that is being presented to them.

AMD chips are too slow to push high end gpus in 2 core usage games, even a single mid-high end card will bottleneck under the best situations with an AMD cpu. While this isn't a huge deal, who wants to lose performance of their GPU because of their cpu? Meanwhile using more than one gpu on an AMD setup compounds the issue, you start tossing money at the wall known as your processor?


It is what it is, its not like you can't game on an AMD system, but if you want the most out of your system you either need a old gpu or an Intel based system.



You need to step up your fanboyism, Intel people shouldn't be telling you how bulldozer works.
I honestly think that a box of rocks is smarter than you.

Yes, each module has 2 piplines (called cores) youre correct, however they are used like HT except HT uses wasted clock cycles to run a secondary thread and bulldozer runs two threads simultaneously. Notice i never said that a thread was split between the cores as you have implied.


As for them being nothing alike, my Xeon 5680 shows 12 cores to programs even though it is technically only a 6 core.


To say AMD chips are too slow to push high end GPU's is also completely bogus as an X6 is competitive with first gen i7's and they do just fine.
    
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post #30 of 119
Sorry you are wrong, don't try to belittle me because you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

Notice what you said is how current cpus work, I can run 4 threads at the same time. You can run 4 threads at the same time.

Bulldozer can run 8 threads at the same time. This is not new, this is not innovative.

Last week:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD;12130813 
Cores refer to integer pipelines. That is what the hardware sees, that is what the OS sees and that is what the application sees. 4 modules will have 8 execution pipelines so it is 8 cores.

It has 8 cores, 8 threads... Nothing new here. Just because they call them moduals don't change what they are. A Intel core has 1 integer, 1 fp, a bulldozer core has 1 integer, 1 fp. Each module does not act like a single core with HT, each module is TWO SEPARATE cores that share the two 128 bit FP pipelines which it can combine to create one AVX 256 bit pipeline.

Two weeks ago:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD;12053277 
2 integer cores and 2 128-bit FMACs that can merge into a single 256-bit AVX engine.


Also you'll love this one...
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-47;12049130 
So a single threaded app doesn't benefit from modules?
would be cool if you get 2cores(1 module) to run a single threated app

Got this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD;12053290 
It would probably run slower. As a single thread, there is a lot of dependency. That dependency would create stalls and gaps if you tried to run it on 2 cores because they would keep waiting for each other.


It is also without question that AMD x6 and x4 cpus bottleneck high end gpus in many games. Why do you think first gen iCore chips always get higher fps in most games? It wasn't because the cpu rendered anything, it's because the cpu fed the gpu faster and did not bottleneck it. The fps come from the gpu, but in order for the gpu to run at full speed it needs a cpu to deliver it the information fast enough. What happens is the AMD chips can't deliver said information fast enough, the result is 100% core usage on the cores the game is using, and the bottleneck is the gpu usage dropping down. The slower the cpu, the lower the gpu usage.

This gap starts out small on single higher end cards, however when you start to add more gpu power the bottleneck becomes greater and results in lower fps.

We done now?


My 1090T @ 4.4Ghz Core 3.3GHz NB le World of Warcraft - Da Bottleneck

ownt.jpg

What faster cores mean...

35049.png

Was mine unplayable? Yes, but I was only getting 30-35 fps in Stormwind, cpu was to slow. Want more fps, want more than one gpu? Get a Intel cpu.

Add another gtx 470, what do I see? Less gpu usage, less fps (than I should be), money spent not yielding results it should.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 2/4/11 at 2:36pm
    
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