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[PSX] Sony Expanding its Case - Page 10

post #91 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykah89 View Post
This thread makes me laugh, if you wanted to run linux go buy a computer. Just looking, it appears as if the majority of the people defending the hacking don't even own a PS3.

Im pretty sure everyone would be singing different tunes if it was their million/billion dollar, successful, business which suddenly became at risk to lose major profits because some ignorant hacker decided that he was some gift to the world.

Im getting really sick of the self entitlement that everyone seems to be getting way too accustomed to.
Go away.

Sony took something away from us, and we just want it back.
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post #92 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
So, no, some of us are actually informed and willing to stand up for our rights as a consumer. IF you don't mind getting walked all over by Sony, then let them. You may proceed with drinking your Corporate Shaft Kool-Aide now.
In the end, there are more people who just don't care than those up in arms. As such, nothing special will happen. Essentially, you're the single protester holding up banners and shouting down a microphone to people who just walk on by and think "don't make eye contact with the conspiracy weirdo!".

Basically, 95% of PS3 users don't care about "other OS", don't care about system files being scanned and don't care about GeoHotz's silly crusade. We just want the new Fifa
post #93 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drenlin View Post
If you back-engineered their ECU firmware make a hack that removed the speed limiter, and then released it to the public, I'm pretty sure they would sue you.
I'm pretty sure you don't know what you're talking about.
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post #94 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilrbe3 View Post
Go away.

Sony took something away from us, and we just want it back.
TOOK WHAT? Dude, even though it's jailbroken there STILL ISNT OTHEROS SUPPORT YET. So if you're doing it, you're only doing it for one reason and you know what that is so just quit it. It's freaking linux, they took it out because it was a security flaw, GET OVER IT. Go put linux on your computer and feel accomplished or just shut up. That interview geohot did on g4 was total bs. He didn't jailbreak it to get back otheros support. Hell, in irc, he was even talking about how he did it to use homebrew and play old games (genesis..etc).

If you were given the choice to either:
1.) Keep the PS3
2.) Return it because they "took" something away from you

I'm sure 99.9% of you would keep it.

All these comparisons you guys are doing are just stupid. Sony is not a car business. Cars don't require games to be useful. Games drive the console. Game developers drive the games.

If the PS3 was only an entertainment system that was somehow hacked to play games not licensed by song, im sure they wouldn't give a damn.
Edited by consume - 2/7/11 at 10:53am
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post #95 of 228
Sony sucks so much.
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post #96 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluescreen_Of_Death View Post
I never said it did. But the DMCA is an american bill, and GeoHot is an american citizen, and he is being sued in an american court.

You are just grasping at straws here.
The DMCA act also did not include ruling on Console hardware.

Quote:
Because Big Brother knows best!

As I said earlier, just because you enjoy the feel of Sony shafting you doesn't mean we all do.
And just how is Sony shafting me? By giving me free internet play? By providing demos for games? By giving me great games that I enjoy playing? By giving me a Bluray player that I can watch all my movies on? By giving me a console I can play PS1, 2, and 3 games on?


Quote:
From what I understand of the situation, the reason the Other OS functionality was removed was because GeoHot found out that Sony was artificially inhibiting the GPU while running a different OS. He bypassed it, and in retaliation Sony took the Other OS function away, claiming piracy was the reason for it.

Now, GeoHot has brought the function back, and he's being sued [illegally I might add].
Piracy very well could be done using his exploit, and, could also open up the doors to online cheating, possible even phishing of accounts. Oh, but that's right, you don't care if the average user gets screwed.

Quote:
So, no, some of us are actually informed and willing to stand up for our rights as a consumer. IF you don't mind getting walked all over by Sony, then let them. You may proceed with drinking your Corporate Shaft Kool-Aide now.
I find it funny that you feel entitled to Other OS. It's like you're saying that it was your baby and Sony took your baby away. Guess what, Sony made the option available early on, someone decided to abuse it, so Sony took it away.

If you want other OS, don't update your PS3.
post #97 of 228
I think what your failing to understand is your "we" group is a minority compared to the amount of people that want to pirate games and cheat.

Sony already has proven that it had no problem letting people install linux on the consoles as they released it that way. I hate to pull out euphemisms but "this is why we cant have nice things" is never more applicable than here.

I know all of this may be a lot for you to comprehend, so maybe you should take your own advice and "Go away" or bring back a stronger argument.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kilrbe3 View Post
Go away.

Sony took something away from us, and we just want it back.
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post #98 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deagle50ae View Post
It's just Sony protecting it's product.
running a hacked system has been a no-no for years and everybody knows it.
Quit Complaining.
No, it's not, I own the hardware, I can do what I want, all Sony can legally do is stop providing their services to me. (Eg. warranty, PSN, firmware updates, etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
OMG. More nubcakes that really don't understand what's going on.

PEOPLE: You bought the hardware, and agreed to use the software. End of story. It is not legal to reverse engineer the code to exploit the software. These guys fully understood what they were doing when they did this, and even threatened Sony.

Oh, wait, what's that I see coming? A "troll" post. How mature of all of you. Btw, 4Chan is the ghey. There, I said it.
iPhone jailbreaking was ruled legal and not covered under the DCMA, how is this different other than I cannot put a PS3 in my pocket?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drenlin View Post
If you back-engineered their ECU firmware make a hack that removed the speed limiter, and then released it to the public, I'm pretty sure they would sue you.
It's more like back engineering the ECU to open it right up then some bright spark (cough cough) using that to remove the speed limiter and wind back the miles on the odometer and then speeding and smashing the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
OMG. More nubcakes that really don't understand what's going on.

PEOPLE: You bought the hardware, and agreed to use the software. End of story. It is not legal to reverse engineer the code to exploit the software. These guys fully understood what they were doing when they did this, and even threatened Sony.

Oh, wait, what's that I see coming? A "troll" post. How mature of all of you. Btw, 4Chan is the ghey. There, I said it.
Business screws over customers as per usual, the iPhone case ruled it legal and not covered under the DCMA to jailbreak devices, it's still a very grey area legally.

Also, nice way to say "Nubcakes" and stuff, then trying to imply anyone who replies is trolling and from 4chan, sign of someone without a real argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Relevant Wing View Post
Maybe if Sony wouldn't removed features, the PS3 wouldn't be cracked. I am one who liked the other OS feature and did use it since it allowed me to steam more files types from my PC, well had to get rid of it or I couldn't use PSN anymore.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Was it not removed because it was being used as a means to crack the console?
There was a security hole in the hypervisor that hackers started to use to get access to the GPU when using OtherOS, Sony got rid of it because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
So, who really is to blame?
Didn't the hack also work on slim consoles without OtherOS?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
http://www.scei.co.jp/ps3-eula/ps3_eula_en.html

This is the EULA for the PS3, if you are using your PS3 right now you signed this. As for this whole issue I could care less, the linux thing was garbage, I ran it for like 2 days, it was so slow I don't know why anyone would've bothered with it. They are not being sued because of the DMCA, they are being sued because they violated the EULA.



2. RESTRICTIONS

You may not lease, rent, sublicense, publish, modify, adapt, or translate any portion of the System Software. To the fullest extent permitted by law, you may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble any portion of the System Software, or create any derivative works, or otherwise attempt to create System Software source code from its object code. You may not (i) use any unauthorized, illegal, counterfeit, or modified hardware or software in connection with the System Software, including use of tools to bypass, disable, or circumvent any encryption, security, or authentication mechanism for the PS3â„¢ system; (ii) violate any laws, regulations or statutes, or rights of SCE, its affiliated companies, or third parties in connection with your access to or use of the System Software, including the access, use, or distribution of any software or hardware that you know or should have known to be infringing or pirated; (iii) use any hardware or software to cause the System Software to accept or use unauthorized, illegal, or pirated software or hardware; (iv) obtain the System Software in any manner other than through SCE's authorized distribution methods; or (v) exploit the System Software in any manner other than to use it in your PS3â„¢ system in accordance with the accompanying documentation and with authorized software or hardware, including use of the System Software to design, develop, update, or distribute unauthorized software or hardware for use in connection with the PS3â„¢ system for any reason. Without limiting the scope of SCE's remedies, any violation of these restrictions will void the PS3â„¢ system's warranty and affect your ability to obtain warranty services and repair services from SCE or its affiliated companies.
The EULA lets them stop providing after sale services to me, nothing more, nothing less, I don't care about PSN nor my warranty and hackers provide me with PS3 updates instead of Sony, what else do they provide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
That's nice, and no one cares what you think. You and your like-minded fellows are the reason that honest users, average consumers, have to put up with this BS in the first place.

Geohot and his chronies all deserve a swift kick in the nuts. Their greed has pushed Sony into a corner, and Sony has responded.

"Damn the average user! We don't care what hurts them, as long as us, the minority, get what we want like spoiled little 3 year old brats, that's all that's important!"

Get over yourself. Sony has a business to run and customers to protect.
No-one cares about your opinion, you may like to use discs and not rip the decent games you buy to HDD/whatever to make the experience better for you, Sony's greed is making them screw customers over more instead of doing the right thing (i.e. Competing with hackers with PS3 firmware updates and features like they did with the PSP and releasing a PS4 quicksmart).

Quite ironic you mentioned troll posts in your last post, then made one yourself.
    
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post #99 of 228
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
Cross subsidisation is hardly relevant to the conversation in hand...
It is relevant when the argument is made the other way, so why is it not relevant in this case? The reason it isn't relevant is because Sony chooses to sell their consoles below the cost of production. It's not the consumers fault, or the hackers fault, that Sony feels hard done by when they are loosing money on a machine that is, by all standards of computing, is entirely obsolete.

Quote:
Indeed you can, but the initial product, the car, is made as a profitable entity.
And your point is? It seems to me that because car manufacturers are better than Sony at sales - then Sony should be able to harrass their users and file frivolous lawsuits against law abiding citizens. So if say, AMD is loosing money, they should be able to threaten and sue anyone that overclocks or modifies their system. You have no point, profit or no profit, Sony sold a product, and the end user decided to modify it. There are no damages, the hackers entirely purchased their equipment, and Sony has not lost even one thin cent over any of this, well, next to the thousands of dollars they are wasing on lawyers.

Quote:
Nope, but say a new company came along and offered a car at $100 but the terms and conditions said "by purchasing this car, you agree to only purchase official parts"... would you not expect the company to enforce that?
Sure, and that would be enforcable because it would clearly be a part of the contract. Sony, on the other hand, has no case because they never put forth any advertisement or warning or anything, and are not selling their console for $20 in return for exclusivity.

What I would expect is that if a hack or mod borked the system, that Sony wouldn't cover it under warranty. Otherwise, Sony has no case, they made their money, and have suffered zero damages as a result of the mods in question.

Quote:
"Why does it matter if they make a profit or not"... serious?
Sure, because the law must apply equally across the board. Just because GM was loosing money doesn't mean they are allowed to put out cars that have massive safety defects, or are missing parts that one would expect in their purchase. It doesn't make then different from Honda, who makes money. Same with consoles. Of Sony is losing money, that's their problem. Losing money doesn't mean they are allowed to bully law abiding citizens who are engaged in their lawful hobbies.

Quote:
But if they didn't take that business model... then would consoles be popular at all? All companies use that model because it is the easiest and most profitable way to market and makes what is essentially a luxury good, mainstream
I don't think it is because of ease and profits, but rather, if they want to score the huge markups and profits on their games, they have to push consoles out the doors. Otherwise, people would just game on their PCs. You have to consider that consoles, the way they stand now, are weak performers when compared to even a mid priced PC. So all the console makers can do is keep the price low, and keep the games people want proprietary. It's the business model they choose - but that doesn't mean that they should be slamming and harassing their law abiding customers.

Quote:
Have you even read why they are taking their actions? It's all about trying to reduce/prevent piracy of games.
This is the age old, lame excuse they always use. If there was actual concern about piracy, they wouldn't use a Blu-Ray disk (or any media) in the first place. They could just sell an entirely sealed unit with certain games, and that would be the end of the question.

And none of this has anything to do with piracy - it's about unlocking features that the console already has, that Sony decided to shut of for who knows what actual reason. And if they didn't want the features there in the first place, they wouldn't have designed them in. This is nothing more than modding, and has nothing to do with the old, tired cliche catchall excuse of piracy.

Quote:
You ever noticed that the most popular games are always top of the most downloaded torrent lists?
I would assume because the unpopular games that no one wants or wouldn't bother to upload, wouldn't be on the lists. Ever wonder why some local garage band that cuts their own burned CD never makes it onto the top 100 of the torrent sites either? If stuff is being posted in torrents - then Sony should attend to that, because that could be the real problem. Some dude modding his own purchased system just doesn't seem to be worth the effort, when compared to the thousand seeders that posted GT5...

Quote:
Nope, they would have special licensing agreements you'll find
And that is relevant in what way? Car makers have contracts with their suppliers, but if you don't like the Goodyears they put on your Ford - you can put Michelins on, without a law suit. Licensing agreements are between the makers, and have nothing to do with customers or modders.

Quote:
A single action can have numerous externalities. Sure, the initial hacking to open up other options isn't necessarily damaging, but the ability to pirate games using custom software is. If piracy poses too much of a risk to investment and revenue, then you can't blame them for shutting it down.
Sure - then Sony should be going after the pirates, not some hobbyists. By your notion, even opening the hood of your car puts you in jeopardy of a law suit, because there are secret things that could be hacked and lead to eventualities.

In this case, there is nothing about piracy or anything - it's just a hobbyist that wants to run whatever on the hardware he lawfully purchased. He is not filing fraudulent warranty claims, not engaged in illicit activities, and not doin any harm to anyone else. If he chooses to pirate - that's a different issue, because piracy is illegal - but booting Linux, I can't see anything illegal about that.

Quote:
In the end, Sony removed "other OS" because Geohotz was using it to hack the console. If he hadn't have done that, you'd still have Linux. I don't blame Sony for defending their revenue.
I don't see how you can make a connection between running Linux and any lost revenue. It's not like Sony had the console stolen from them.
post #100 of 228
Heh, I could write a reply, but to be honest, we'll never agree and even if we do, it means nothing in real life... so... yah, you win.
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