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[CVG]Battlefield 3 dev: 'You can't kill CoD by copying' - Page 8

post #71 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Twitch skills are definitely required... but BF requires more strategy and long-term planning.

As a commander, where do you direct your resources? Where do you tell squads to go and provide support?

As a squad leader, do you listen to commander to assist in defense or choose to advance? Do you spawn with everyone else in the front lines or do spawn back and defend against the guys who managed to sneak through?

There's a tank rolling in.... do you spawn in as an Engineer or continue to run with a Medic kit?
lets not forget that as squad leader you are the only guy who needs to survive. A good squad leader plays entirely different than the other men in his squad. You gotta know when to shoot and when not to shoot. In battlefield the objective isnt just kill guys. Sometimes its best to just let the enemy move on instead of killing them and alerting them to your presence.
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post #72 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Twitch skills are definitely required... but BF requires more strategy and long-term planning.

As a commander, where do you direct your resources? Where do you tell squads to go and provide support?

As a squad leader, do you listen to commander to assist in defense or choose to advance? Do you spawn with everyone else in the front lines or do spawn back and defend against the guys who managed to sneak through?

There's a tank rolling in.... do you spawn in as an Engineer or continue to run with a Medic kit?
While I mostly play CoD4:

"As a commander, where do you direct your resources? Where do you tell squads to go and provide support?

As a squad leader, do you listen to commander to assist in defense or choose to advance? Do you spawn with everyone else in the front lines or do spawn back and defend against the guys who managed to sneak through?"

You just got killed by a guy coming through the back hole on Crossfire, do you tell your whole team there is a p90 guy rushing spawn and has broken through?

Do you realize you are the only guy watching the whole right side of the map and encourage others to join you? Or the contra, do you see that all of the Marine/Opfor are rushing the left side only, and the right side of the map is completely unguarded?

"There's a tank rolling in.... do you spawn in as an Engineer or continue to run with a Medic kit?"

Do you see your team getting decimated by an array of snipers, and realize you have no one picking their snipers off, thus changing kits to better suit a long range defense?

ONE game doesn't require you to NEED/USE a brain 24/7, BOTH games benefit greatly from having a brain.

Although your points are valid, and BC2 opens a greater variety of options, to imply you simply use more brain in one game is somewhat untrue. It all depends on who is playing, AND to why they are playing. Some players play to win, some players play to just spam LMGs (which they consider strangely fun.) The only difference is you have a much harder time jumping into BC2 for a killing spree. Which is primarily why one plays a shooter.
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post #73 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
While I mostly play CoD4:

"As a commander, where do you direct your resources? Where do you tell squads to go and provide support?

As a squad leader, do you listen to commander to assist in defense or choose to advance? Do you spawn with everyone else in the front lines or do spawn back and defend against the guys who managed to sneak through?"

You just got killed by a guy coming through the back hole on Crossfire, do you tell your whole team there is a p90 guy rushing spawn and has broken through?

Do you realize you are the only guy watching the whole right side of the map and encourage others to join you? Or the contra, do you see that all of the Marine/Opfor are rushing the left side only, and the right side of the map is completely unguarded?

"There's a tank rolling in.... do you spawn in as an Engineer or continue to run with a Medic kit?"

Do you see your team getting decimated by an array of snipers, and realize you have no one picking their snipers off, thus changing kits to better suit a long range defense?

ONE game doesn't require you to NEED/USE a brain 24/7, BOTH games benefit greatly from having a brain.

Although your points are valid, and BC2 opens a greater variety of options, to imply you simply use more brain in one game is somewhat untrue. It all depends on who is playing, AND to why they are playing. Some players play to win, some players play to just spam LMGs (which they consider strangely fun.) The only difference is you have a much harder time jumping into BC2 for a killing spree. Which is primarily why one plays a shooter.
The tactics employued in COD are nothing compared to that in BF games.
    
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post #74 of 135
to me mw2 and bf2 WAS TOTALLY different. especially with gameplay. mw2 was a total run and shoot and dont need tactics, aslong as you can aim faster and shoot faster you win games, which is not the case with bf2
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post #75 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
You just got killed by a guy coming through the back hole on Crossfire, do you tell your whole team there is a p90 guy rushing spawn and has broken through?
...and that's where judgement comes into play.

On a 32vs32 server, the commander needs to maintain situational awareness of the map, direct squads, provide support via assets, and maybe defend base.

If you see a squad leader behind your lines, you inform all your SL. Then see which squad is in the midst of respawning and request that they take care of the guy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Do you realize you are the only guy watching the whole right side of the map and encourage others to join you? Or the contra, do you see that all of the Marine/Opfor are rushing the left side only, and the right side of the map is completely unguarded?
Huh? With huge maps, it isn't only about "left side" or "right side" or a single chokepoint.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Do you see your team getting decimated by an array of snipers, and realize you have no one picking their snipers off, thus changing kits to better suit a long range defense?
Yes, but that is infantry vs infantry. All infantry weapons have a possibility of killing any other infantry. All infantry weapons cannot damage vehicles therefore you have an additional layer of complexity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
ONE game doesn't require you to NEED/USE a brain 24/7, BOTH games benefit greatly from having a brain.
No doubt there. But in the Battlefield games, twitch skills alone is not enough to make a great player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Although your points are valid, and BC2 opens a greater variety of options, to imply you simply use more brain in one game is somewhat untrue. It all depends on who is playing, AND to why they are playing. Some players play to win, some players play to just spam LMGs (which they consider strangely fun.) The only difference is you have a much harder time jumping into BC2 for a killing spree. Which is primarily why one plays a shooter.
Battlefields not only offers more options but requires greater situational awareness. You have to be aware what is in shooting range... but you also must be aware what is going on over the hill and across the map. (i.e. A helo is coming in so you get on the AAA.)

That is a big assumption. I play shooters so my team can win and not just to get a "killing spree". I usually play a front line specialization so I can get into the fight. My K/D is not great (1.33) but my Score Per minute is 256.
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post #76 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
...and that's where judgement comes into play.

On a 32vs32 server, the commander needs to maintain situational awareness of the map, direct squads, provide support via assets, and maybe defend base.

If you see a squad leader behind your lines, you inform all your SL. Then see which squad is in the midst of respawning and request that they take care of the guy.



Huh? With huge maps, it isn't only about "left side" or "right side" or a single chokepoint.




Yes, but that is infantry vs infantry. All infantry weapons have a possibility of killing any other infantry. All infantry weapons cannot damage vehicles therefore you have an additional layer of complexity.



No doubt there. But in the Battlefield games, twitch skills alone is not enough to make a great player.


Battlefields not only offers more options but requires greater situational awareness. You have to be aware what is in shooting range... but you also must be aware what is going on over the hill and across the map. (i.e. A helo is coming in so you get on the AAA.)

That is a big assumption. I play shooters so my team can win and not just to get a "killing spree". I usually play a front line specialization so I can get into the fight. My K/D is not great (1.33) but my Score Per minute is 256.
All of that was exactly my point, I think you took me as I was arguing with you. They are two completely separate games and gaming styles. I was just declaring that you can't assume any game requiring more complexity, makes other games "mindless". Although you can do well with just reflexes and good aim in most shooters, it takes a whole new level of strategy and ability to play on that professional level.

In Bad Company 2, you can't do well with just good reflexes and good aim, in fact some of the worst players start off by assuming that. I personally prefer to live on my own merits rather than a team effort. Thats just personal preference, being forced to cooperate with total strangers does nothing for me. Maybe with a group of guys I know and talked with, then maybe I would see the necessity of squads.

I am not much of a Sabotage/S&D type player, I don't mind control points as much, but I play a shooter, as well do (going on assumption) a lot of players, to shoot other people. If they prefer strategy to shooting players, then that is the reason for RTS genre doing so well.

There is nothing wrong with that, people can hate on Call of Duty all they want, but there isn't any other shooter out there that lets you kill people, and kill them that well. My initial points were to take a working formula such as Bad Company 2, and make it even better by allowing a players personal skill level to matter even more without ruining the other side of the game that many people love to play, hence Hardcore mode tweaking.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/7/11 at 10:53am
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post #77 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
All of that was exactly my point, I think you took me as I was arguing with you. They are two completely separate games and gaming styles. I was just declaring that you can't assume because any game requiring more complexity, makes other games "mindless". Although you can do well with just reflexes and good aim in most shooters, it takes a whole new level of strategy and ability to play on that professional level.

In Bad Company 2, you can't do well with just good reflexes and good aim, in fact some of the worst players assume that. I personally prefer to live on my own merits rather than a team effort. Thats just personal preference, playing with total strangers does nothing for me. I am not much of a Sabotage/S&D type player, I don't mind control points as much, but I play a shooter, as well do (going on assumption) a lot of players, to shoot other people. If they prefer strategy to shooting players, then that is the reason for RTS genre doing so well.
I agree they are two seperate game styles.... however, you are making massive assumptions with shooters should not have strategy.

If you want a shooter without any strategy, then you might as well play a Flash reaction-based game.
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post #78 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
I agree they are two seperate game styles.... however, you are making massive assumptions with shooters should not have strategy.

If you want a shooter without any strategy, then you might as well play a Flash reaction-based game.
My assumptions are not that much of a stretch when compared to how many similar shooters are out there vs. how many of them are like Battlefield (other than the variety of Battlefield titles.)

Perhaps I have just been playing shooters too long, but most shooters don't have a ton of "battlefield strategy" in them. That doesn't mean it won't always be that way, and I am all for changes & evolution if its done nicely.

That is why I was lured to BC2. I like where its taking the genre, but I didn't think it is quite there yet.
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post #79 of 135
I'll chime in here.....

My first FPS since CS waaaaaaaaay back in the day was...

MOH, Liked it. Was fun, graphics were good (maps were ****) joined my first clan)

COD BLOPS, Liked it. Was fast fun and easy

Then in brought BC2, Liked it. Was more tactical, much better played with mates.

Then i brought BF2 lol didnt like it as much as BC2 but still just as engaging (would have been more fun if i played at the peak of its life)

so yeah right back into the FPS genre again and to be honest they all could be better. Prone doesnt bother me as i hate those dolphins, Short SP games piss me off as thats what you play when waiting for your mates to log on. ****ty code gets to me i mean some of these games are in development over 2 years. you think they could atleast make the game work properly. anyways what i think im trying to say is i like FPS and I like ALL of them.

PS preordered HOMEFRONT and BF3 WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!! cant wait!!
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post #80 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
Battlefield players here sound all "elitists" and every other game is crap when you play it.

I am sorry Call of Duty 4, WAW, MW2, and Black Ops, are completely different type of shooters than Bad Company 2 of BF2. You don't compare CoD4 to say Doom 3 do you? (If you do... you are just wrong.) Call of Duty is a lot like Counter-Strike, Battlefield is a lot like.... Battlefield. They are both great game series.

You all have to stop whining about CoD, and focusing on your own title, and some of its main downfalls.

Thinks like going prone is an issue for many players, myself included.

Strange lag & hit box detection (which they did eventually fix some of it.) Firing an entire clip into someones back (hearing registered hits) and all he does is turn around and one shoot me with a shotgun or some rocket and that just pisses me off. It takes my skill out of the game, and forces me to be at the mercy of a computer.

A shotgun you can snipe with.

Hacking, as with all games is an issue.

A hardcore mode that doesn't feel any different than regular mode. If I am playing hardcore mode, I expect a .50 caliber bullet to kill you, not several .50 caliber bullets. If you say shoot them in the head, shut up. I am not an aimbotter, nor a perfect marksman, and the fact that some guys can only die if you shoot them in their head, is the most unrealistic BS I have ever heard. THEY ARE NOT ZOMBIES, how realistic is it to shoot every internal major organ, only to be healed by some gauss from a med pack lying on the ground getting applied through osmosis? Its not.

A TDM that is at most 16 people distributed over 4 different teams, thats just retarded, let people have 16 v 16 or 20 v 20 or 30 v 30 straight up kill fests. Some of us don't see the point of blowing up an empty building, or taking over an empty cargo container in the middle of a desert for points, yet thats all we have to choose from when we want massive battles.

Stop whining at people who like to snipe. I am so sick of that, if some guy wants to creep around the jungle picking people off, let him, its a video game for craps sake, and the game developers put it in the game. He would probably play Team death match, but hey guess what team death match options blow, give the guy/kid a break and let him have fun.

They fix Hardcore mode and team death match, and I for sure would be most happy to play this title. The other stuff I can deal with I suppose.
/endthread
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?????????
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 @3000Mhz 1.35vcore Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L Radeon HD 4870 1GB XFX 2GB DDR2 Novatech (2x1GB) + 1GB OCZ DDR2 800 
Hard DriveOptical DriveOSMonitor
160 GB WD SATA2 + 500 GB WD SATA 2 SONY DVD-RW 16x DL Windows XP Home Telefunken 22" 1366x768 (unknown model) 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
A4 Tech X7 Satellite 600W Some Sentey Case A4 Tech Glaser 5 
Mouse Pad
Generic 
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Reply
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