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The Zambezi CPU Performance Estimate... - Page 11

post #101 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
I guess a 16 core BD against an 8 core 16 thread is no different to an 8 core BD against a 4 core 8 thread SB.

I really don't haven't got a clue how this is all going to end, though my head tells me the winner will be wearing blue.
I think AMD will be the winner until 2013 because Ivy Bridge is supposedly a die shrink with a slight performance bump.
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post #102 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
So you think the 16 core chip is going to go against the 8 core 16 thread sandy bridge chips on the server end?

That should be pretty interesting, though I'm not a sever guy... the 8 core variant will be their "top" chip in the desktop market and it will be going against the same intel chip...

It will be interesting to see how it pans out, I would think the redesign would save cash, since they aren't putting full 256 FP pipelines in for each core like Intel is.
..friendly advise: spread less FUD, instead more read

JohnF said, integer load is majority of code (80%) .

Floating point circuits are power hungry , and in todays CPUs, average usage of those FP circuits is <40% (low)---->
---that´s main reason why bulldozer uses FlexFP (sharing beefed up FP circuitry between two cores- in module)

Bulldozer has several parts shared between those two cores in module, and ofcourse those shared parts were enhanced...
Therefore your worries are not necessary.
BD was not designed in old fashion, why they should spend more wattage on those less utilized areas ?
in layman´s terms : save power on low utilized areas, and invest it where it will make sense(integer)


(BTW, it seems AVX is in BD way better implemented..) BD will have FMA(4), such feature have only a few hi-end server chips
---
But dont think about intel SMT, that is very different technology (somebody would say - SMT is inferior compared to Bulldozer CMT)

SMT increases cache trashing, and enabled SMT may decrease performance...
Real cores/threads never decrease performance, but virtual sometimes do.

Edited by pietro sk - 2/11/11 at 3:56pm
    
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post #103 of 354
pie you take fanboy to a new level, grats on that.


First you say its unimportant, then you take the time to add colors and text sizes to state how you feel its better on the BD chips.

I'm not spreading "FUD" English clearly isn't your strong suit, but I can assure you I am not spreading "FUD".






Looks like Intel is really hurting on the power draw area too.



This whole topic is getting really old though, it's really hard to argue for or against vaporware.

AMD is going to rule the world soon! They will skip a generation of performance, a generation of power efficiency, and they'll blow INTEL away with pricing too!

Now we can drop this until something other than "I think" and "Marketing says" comes out?
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 2/11/11 at 4:14pm
    
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post #104 of 354
uh-oh... dear balla, i see you´re defending intel at all costs.. its YOUR choice so be it

it´s funny, your figures are looking a bit odd - oh wait a minute.. tomshardware?
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/p...stungsaufnahme
------
english is not my native language (do you have problem with that ?),
but insults are your strong attribute


BTW , all those intel cpus in your "charts" are 32nm...
Edited by pietro sk - 2/11/11 at 4:29pm
    
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post #105 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Both AMD and INTEL are in this game to make money, AMD seems to coming to the realization they can still make it while selling sub $200 chips.
I am pretty sure that if you offered me 100% of the $1000 desktop CPU market or 1% of the $200 price band SKUs I would take the 1% in a heartbeat. That is where the money is at. In terms of absolute revenue and absolute margin that is where you want to win. I fail to see how being successful in the sub $200 market is a bad thing. I don't know actual share but I would be willing to bet that is more than 80% of the market, at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
So you think the 16 core chip is going to go against the 8 core 16 thread sandy bridge chips on the server end?

That should be pretty interesting, though I'm not a sever guy... the 8 core variant will be their "top" chip in the desktop market and it will be going against the same intel chip...

It will be interesting to see how it pans out, I would think the redesign would save cash, since they aren't putting full 256 FP pipelines in for each core like Intel is.
You are looking at it wrong. Compare a $1200 AMD processor to a $1200 intel processor. That is actually how customers do it. They don't look at core counts, they look at price points. No customer has ever told me "I need a 12-core server" but thousands have said "we have $5K in the budget for a departmental database server...."

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
I guess a 16 core BD against an 8 core 16 thread is no different to an 8 core BD against a 4 core 8 thread SB.

I really don't haven't got a clue how this is all going to end, though my head tells me the winner will be wearing blue.
I would say that there is no "one" winner. This is not the superbowl. The market is huge and there are lots of subsections of the market.
post #106 of 354
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
I guess a 16 core BD against an 8 core 16 thread is no different to an 8 core BD against a 4 core 8 thread SB.

I really don't haven't got a clue how this is all going to end, though my head tells me the winner will be wearing blue.
I've been telling everyone for weeks that Bulldozer is THE CHIP...

Though we don't have any concrete stats yet, and I could be wrong..

But if I am, that would mean Intel will more or less own the market and can raise prices A LOT, which in turn makes AMD second best & second choice, though I'm not against cheap, but if I'm gonna spend $200 for a CPU, I would be willing to part with more if the performance warranted it..

That's where Sandy Bridge is now, and where Ivy Bridge will be later, but we really have to see what AMD does with Zambezi first, it's seriously the missing piece of the puzzle right now...

I cannot wait!
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post #107 of 354
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD
I would say that there is no "one" winner. This is not the superbowl. The market is huge and there are lots of subsections of the market.
But in the Enthusiast market, it's ALL about the best CPU within a price bracket...

If a person can afford the best, then it's all about the best performance, they won't hear it any other way either...

So you could say, but this or but that, but when a customer walks into my store with the money, and says..

"I want the best." I tell them the price, they say, "Not a problem, how long will it take you?"

The only time cores & performance doesn't matter is when you are talking to people who are more concerned about the money..

If you look at Apple & their expensive products which sell A LOT, they can teach you something, because there is a rather profitable market for "The Best" believe me..

While the cheaper CPUs may make CPU MFGs more money, that doesn't mean they can't win anything by making Enthusiast Chips, truly not the case...

BTW Apple is buying Sandy Bridge, that has got to hurt bad...
Edited by _GTech - 2/11/11 at 6:30pm
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post #108 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
I am pretty sure that if you offered me 100% of the $1000 desktop CPU market or 1% of the $200 price band SKUs I would take the 1% in a heartbeat. That is where the money is at. In terms of absolute revenue and absolute margin that is where you want to win. I fail to see how being successful in the sub $200 market is a bad thing. I don't know actual share but I would be willing to bet that is more than 80% of the market, at least.
Yes, I remember you saying that before. Which is why I figured that was the direction AMD was heading. They've seen great profits in these last few years, even without the best chips. Bulldozer seems to play into that thought process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD View Post
You are looking at it wrong. Compare a $1200 AMD processor to a $1200 intel processor. That is actually how customers do it. They don't look at core counts, they look at price points. No customer has ever told me "I need a 12-core server" but thousands have said "we have $5K in the budget for a departmental database server...."
Aye I probably am, I've never purchased for server based computers before. Their needs seem to be quite different than my own, and basing my purchases off what does best on the server side probably wouldn't be all that fruitful for me

Sever chips at least on the AMD front are quite different than what I need. On the Intel side as of late they've run the same socket, 775/1156/1366 server chips work on the consumer boards as well. Not that I would ever buy a server chip and put it in a home user board, but with the Intel chips they perform the same (or better) in the respect of overclocking as the non-server chips do.



AMD seems to be focused on the server side, and I have to admit it's probably a lot more lucrative than the home user market, and far more lucrative than the high end enthusiast market. I just wish both shared the same important aspects, which they don't.
Edited by BallaTheFeared - 2/11/11 at 7:01pm
    
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post #109 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
But in the Enthusiast market, it's ALL about the best CPU within a price bracket...

If a person can afford the best, then it's all about the best performance, they won't hear it any other way either...

So you could say, but this or but that, but when a customer walks into my store with the money, and says..

"I want the best." I tell them the price, they say, "Not a problem, how long will it take you?"

The only time cores & performance doesn't matter is when you are talking to people who are more concerned about the money..

If you look at Apple & their expensive products which sell A LOT, they can teach you something, because there is a rather profitable market for "The Best" believe me..


While the cheaper CPUs may make CPU MFGs more money, that doesn't mean they can't win anything by making Enthusiast Chips, truly not the case...

BTW Apple is buying Sandy Bridge, that has got to hurt bad...
I really hope the quotation marks around the best is meant to show sarcasm.
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post #110 of 354
50% performance bonus for hyperthreading, rofl


Bulldozer will be hopefully roughly double performance in integers in multithreaded applications and close to double performance FP ops depending on how well AMD has implemented this (since the only program that can use intels 256bit AVX pipeline right now seems to be linpack). But this is all theoretical, and we don't know how the dual channel will perform version quad channel, how well hypertransport 3.1 performs...
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