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post #151 of 354
The main issue with the above assumptions is the fact that many programs at least at this time won't be taking full advantage of 8 cores so even if the assumptions are near the mark performance is gonna be all over the map depending on what programs are being run. Personally I can see bulldozer beating the 9xx i7's clock for clock easily given the amount of time AMD has been working on this architecture, beating sandy bridge clock for clock will be a bit more iffy though considering it is a two generation gap they have to bridge. Granted it has been done before so who knows. Anyways I see bulldozer exchanging blows with sandy bridge depending on the programs being run, anything heavily threaded 8c bulldozer should win easily, anything limited to 2-4 threads I honestly don't see bulldozer winning unless AMD really pulls off something amazing. As I've said before I am holding out hope on AMD beating out intel but till we get official benchs it's just that, hope and speculation.
Edited by scyy - 2/16/11 at 12:10am
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post #152 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
Let's see, I use a lot of abbreviations, so GTech could be replaced wit GSpecTech to give me a middle name... But I'm not seeing it...

So to answer your question in a round about way, it could be though it's not..

I like speculating & thinking on boards, people can say what they want about me, I care not...
if you cant live w/o speculation, why you dont visit chip design enthusiasts blogs (websites) ?
(..and learn something about new architectures)


few examples - david kanter , dresdenboy
http://citavia.blog.de/
http://www.realworldtech.com/
    
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post #153 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy View Post
The main issue with the above assumptions is the fact that many programs at least at this time won't be taking full advantage of 8 cores so even if the assumptions are near the mark performance is gonna be all over the map depending on what programs are being run. Personally I can see bulldozer beating the 9xx i7's clock for clock easily given the amount of time AMD has been working on this architecture, beating sandy bridge clock for clock will be a bit more iffy though considering it is a two generation gap they have to bridge. Granted it has been done before so who knows. Anyways I see bulldozer exchanging blows with sandy bridge depending on the programs being run, anything heavily threaded 8c bulldozer should win easily, anything limited to 2-4 threads I honestly don't see bulldozer winning unless AMD really pulls off something amazing. As I've said before I am holding out hope on AMD beating out intel but till we get official benchs it's just that, hope and speculation.
its the same about intel chips.. for some users (usage patterns) intel chips have more cores than user really needs.

and here comes turbo - like on intel chips, if you use few cores - turbo is stronger -similar will apply for BD´s new turbo.
(one big difference - on amd part will not cross the TDP)

therefore any opinions about "software is not ready for 8 cores" is pretty useless (unprofesional),
wise buyer will look for 4cBD instead



.. frankly, if somebody buy such costly systems like SB or thuban - and does not fold on them (f@h , boinc )
thats stupid - such waste of resources
    
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post #154 of 354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
I know you're excited for Bulldozer, but man, until we have some real numbers from reliable sources, everything else is pure speculation.
Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we cannot flex our intellectual muscles for fun, true?

How about we have a Guess Contest w/a Prize!?

Who ever can correctly guess the % gain in Performance Bulldozer will produce over an i7 Quad Core CPU using 2 comparisons, requiring 2 X % Performance Gain results, will win a very special prize!!!???

We would have to agree on the prize, the 2 benchmark test which will be used to compare both CPUs & which i7 CPU to compare it to...

Once we had the specifics & rules in place we can talk about the prize(s)....
(For the sake that there will indeed be a prize awarded, the closest to the correct %s will win the prize(s)).

Now that would be having fun while speculating, and a very fun contest too!

*raise your hand* if this excites you & you want to see a contest like this...
Edited by _GTech - 2/16/11 at 7:16am
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post #155 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk View Post
its the same about intel chips.. for some users (usage patterns) intel chips have more cores than user really needs.

and here comes turbo - like on intel chips, if you use few cores - turbo is stronger -similar will apply for BD´s new turbo.
(one big difference - on amd part will not cross the TDP)

therefore any opinions about "software is not ready for 8 cores" is pretty useless (unprofesional),
wise buyer will look for 4cBD instead



.. frankly, if somebody buy such costly systems like SB or thuban - and does not fold on them (f@h , boinc )
thats stupid - such waste of resources


So needing extra cores for graphical design, virtual machines, video encoding, (new)games and servers is stupid and a waste of resources simply because apparenly folding is the sole purposeful reason anyone could ever use a high core count cpu for??!

Ever heard of the darwin awards? Well done you just qualified.

lmao
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post #156 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we cannot flex our intellectual muscles for fun, true?

How about we have a Guess Contest w/a Prize!?

Who ever can correctly guess the % gain in Performance Bulldozer will produce over an i7 Quad Core CPU using 2 comparisons, requiring 2 X % Performance Gain results, will win a very special prize!!!???

We would have to agree on the prize, the 2 benchmark test which will be used to compare both CPUs & which i7 CPU to compare it to...

Once we had the specifics & rules in place we can talk about the prize(s)....
(For the sake that there will indeed be a prize awarded, the closest to the correct %s will win the prize(s)).

Now that would be having fun while speculating, and a very fun contest too!

*raise your hand* if this excites you & you want to see a contest like this...

Yes sounds good but I think we should allow users to quote not only single thread but multi thread performance and cost vs intel at launch so that we dont just get everyone copying each other and about a million posts saying "10%" etc.

For example my wild guess is:-

8 core bulldozer £200/$320 at launch
Single thread @ stock vs 2600K will be only 90% as fast
Multithread @ stock vs 2600K will be 13% faster

Max average overclock 4.4Ghz

4Ghz factory set turbocore 2.0


Im also going to guess that there will be alot of annoyance about how high they overclock compared to intel as it would seem logical not to expect major overclocking as first generation bulldozer is going to be fabbed gate first and is not expected to be fabbed gate last till second generation late 2012.

Gate-last and gate-first refer to the point at which a transistor's gate is put onto a CPU-production wafer. Previously, CPU transistors featured a silicon gate and a silicon dioxide insulator.

However, in order to combat the problems with current leakage as silicon gets thinner, most fabrication firms have now replaced the silicon-based parts with a metal gate and a high-k insulator made from a material such as Hafnium. This means that the fabrication company has to choose whether the metal gate electrode is dropped onto the wafer before or after the high-temperature heating process.

Gate-last is superior, because it provides a better choice of transistors for higher performance, which could crudely translated into better overclocking potential, as well as lower leakage. Gate last on the otherhand is more expensive as it can produce more failed fabs. Intel have been using gate last and have worked very hard to minimize losses on this process.
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post #157 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we cannot flex our intellectual muscles for fun, true?

How about we have a Guess Contest w/a Prize!?

Who ever can correctly guess the % gain in Performance Bulldozer will produce over an i7 Quad Core CPU using 2 comparisons, requiring 2 X % Performance Gain results, will win a very special prize!!!???

We would have to agree on the prize, the 2 benchmark test which will be used to compare both CPUs & which i7 CPU to compare it to...

Once we had the specifics & rules in place we can talk about the prize(s)....
(For the sake that there will indeed be a prize awarded, the closest to the correct %s will win the prize(s)).

Now that would be having fun while speculating, and a very fun contest too!

*raise your hand* if this excites you & you want to see a contest like this...
True, while speculating on an unreleased product is completely useless it's still fun and interesting to discuss upcoming technologies.

I like the contest idea. But the one thing I don't like is your use of "2 benchmark tests." I think we should have 1 benchmark test and another more "real-world" testing...which can be gaming performance, which I think most of us care about. And maybe "overclocking ability" although that may be too individual chip/mobo biased.

If I won the lotto I would totally sponsor such contest with incredible prizes...the top prize being of course a high end chip from either Intel/AMD with the winner's choosing.
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post #158 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Telekinesis View Post
So needing extra cores for graphical design, virtual machines, video encoding, (new)games and servers is stupid and a waste of resources simply because apparenly folding is the sole purposeful reason anyone could ever use a high core count cpu for??!

Ever heard of the darwin awards? Well done you just qualified.

lmao
did i said that ??
you totally misunderstood and twisted upside down my post !
    
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post #159 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by pietro sk View Post
.. frankly, if somebody buy such costly systems like SB or thuban - and does not fold on them (f@h , boinc )
thats stupid - such waste of resources

I think that says it all really.
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post #160 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace Telekinesis View Post
I think that says it all really.
again you misunderstood

what i said - many people buy expensive systems just for occasional gaming or run only on it few times video encoding -
- otherwise they let such overpowered and expensive system at idle.. (long periods)
that´s stupid as hell

its sad, when i look in boinc stats (for example) and total number of users is so low - world wide (!)
where are those people with huge gaming rigs ?
    
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