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The Zambezi CPU Performance Estimate... - Page 23

post #221 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Chimera View Post
Ok so, AMD compares the performance of AMD X6 to an Intel X4 (they're both equal in the image), then compare the Intel X4 to an AMD X8 and they're so proud of the x1.5 performance? OMG are you sure this image is from AMD? and not Intel? Or just a fake by some Intel lover?

I know Nº of cores isn't everything but...seriously...
Whilst few think this is genuine, the point is (if you want to compare core count, which is crap, all that matters is price / performance), both the cpu's are running 8 threads, therefore it's a fair comparison, same as when AMD quads were compared to quad HT intel.
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post #222 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCPUser View Post
Someone who knows for sure correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the reason why AMD boards need a hack to SLI is because Nvidia has some licensing or something similar requiring that AMD would have to pay them before officially being able to support SLI. Maybe I am confused here, but IF that is the case then NVIDIA is the one who should be getting the minus. Nobody wants to pay their competitor.


Anyway, the reason why people keep bring up fanboy is because posts related to the WELL KNOW FACT that Intel is currently WAY faster than AMD for nearly the same price serves no purpose in this thread. As the title suggests this is a BD speculation thread so I fail to see how posts of this nature help further the discussion. Intel currently better than AMD benchmarks = off topic (i.e fanboy rubbing it in) in this thread.
Judging by your icon, you are completely impartial, thanks for your input though.

My posts were replies to others' claims that 1 "Intel Fanboys" are jealous, and 2 that the charts I used are irrelevant.

I merely illustrated my decision to go with Intel, and I was trying to illustrate that AMD was my 1st option for both processor and GPU, so people could at least try and understand that I am loyal to neither company, I'm only loyal to whoever provides me the best performance, at the moment, we all know where it's at.

I summarized my reasoning with:

AMD's lack of performance in CS5 vs Nvidia's CUDA. Minus for AMD

AMD mobo's do not support SLI - They could attain a license if they wanted to, but of course they're not going to support a competitor, which is understandable. Regardless of the reason, SLI is not supported and in my case I need an Nvidia card, and want the SLI option. How about I change this to Even? Happy?

AMD mobo's are pretty meh - Minus for AMD

Intel's processors were better overall - Minus for AMD

Shall I continue? No point as you likely read my post and tried to find something you could criticize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Chimera View Post
Ok so, AMD compares the performance of AMD X6 to an Intel X4 (they're both equal in the image), then compare the Intel X4 to an AMD X8 and they're so proud of the x1.5 performance? OMG are you sure this image is from AMD? and not Intel? Or just a fake by some Intel lover?

I know Nº of cores isn't everything but...seriously...
JF-AMD has confirmed that whatever this is, it did not come from AMD.

ALL anyone has tried to state here is that there's NOTHING reliable about Bulldozer, but a lot of people are going on and on based on assumptions, and theoretical performance, as soon as someone doesn't agree with the AMD opinion, they are labeled as AMD haters and Intel fanboys.

You can see where this has been done in this thread numerous times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by purpleannex View Post
Whilst few think this is genuine, the point is (if you want to compare core count, which is crap, all that matters is price / performance), both the cpu's are running 8 threads, therefore it's a fair comparison, same as when AMD quads were compared to quad HT intel.
For once, I agree with you. If the 8 core BD is priced at $329 and spanks the 2600K ( as it should with twice the number of cores ) it's fair game to compare them.
Edited by 2010rig - 2/18/11 at 1:49am
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post #223 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Chimera View Post
Ok so, AMD compares the performance of AMD X6 to an Intel X4 (they're both equal in the image), then compare the Intel X4 to an AMD X8 and they're so proud of the x1.5 performance? OMG are you sure this image is from AMD? and not Intel? Or just a fake by some Intel lover?

I know Nº of cores isn't everything but...seriously...
... So correct me if im wrong, but you want to bring up the 'core' thing... Doesn't Bulldozer have 4 modules / 8 threads? Each thread acts like a core and AMD refers to them as cores, which isn't entirely correct, but really its a quad core... Like I said though, correct me if I'm wrong

Really the picture is comparing AMD 4core/8thread to Intel 4core/8thread, while also showing the increase from AMD's current 'hot' processor
Edited by blkdoutgsxr - 2/18/11 at 1:56am
post #224 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkdoutgsxr View Post
... So correct me if im wrong, but you want to bring up the 'core' thing... Doesn't Bulldozer have 4 modules / 8 threads? Each thread acts like a core and AMD refers to them as cores, which isn't entirely correct, but really its a quad core... Like I said though, correct me if I'm wrong
Sadly you're partially right and wrong, go figure.

The whole "modules" thing is for developers.

An 8 core Bulldozer will be marketed as an 8 core Bulldozer.

Yes, 8 cores = 8 Threads.


Edited by 2010rig - 2/18/11 at 2:00am
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post #225 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
Sadly you're partially right and wrong, go figure.

The whole "modules" thing is for developers.

An 8 core Bulldozer will be marketed as an 8 core Bulldozer.

Right, so AMD marketers want to call them cores for marketing reasons... but its ... whats the word... ignorant(?) to compare a 4 core Intel to it and say "WELLL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT HAS 2x THE CORES OMG ONLY 150% INCREASE PSSSSHHHH!!!" Just saying... I would say its still an x4, but I think AMD know a lot of people out there go OMG 8cores? :add to cart:
post #226 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkdoutgsxr View Post
Right, so AMD marketers want to call them cores for marketing reasons... but its ... whats the word... ignorant(?) to compare a 4 core Intel to it and say "WELLL WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? IT HAS 2x THE CORES OMG ONLY 150% INCREASE PSSSSHHHH!!!" Just saying... I would say its still an x4, but I think AMD know a lot of people out there go OMG 8cores? :add to cart:
How can it still be an x4 when it has 8 cores? You have to realize that there will be 4 core and 8 core Bulldozer chips.

Here's another quote from JF-AMD.

Quote:
OK, first off jimmy, the cores are real cores. Please give me all of the reasons why you believe they are not.

And "because they are not" does not count. Intel shares a single scheduler between their integer core and their FPU. Does that mean they are not real cores? Older versions of the 7000 series had shared L2 cache. Does that mean they were not real cores?

When the world went from single core to dual core, everything in the processor went from being completely dedicated to shared. At that point manufacturers, including intel, have made decisions about what components to share and what to leave discrete. Bulldozer is no different.

As to MCM, we never said MCM was bad. What we said was UNCONNECTED MCM was bad. When you have 2 dies sitting right next to each other in the package, and communication between the two has to run a.) outside the chip, b.) through a slow flont side bus and through the external memory controller.

Our dies are connected via HT so there is no latency impact of adjacent cache access between two dies.
Like I said before: If the 8 core BD is priced at $329 and spanks the 2600K ( as it should with twice the number of cores ) it's fair game to compare them. Theoretically speaking, judging by the history of both companies, if the 8 core BD is 1.5x as fast as a 2600K expect it to be around $500 minimum. JMO.

You do remember the FX Dual Cores that were $1000 right?
Edited by 2010rig - 2/18/11 at 2:10am
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post #227 of 354
@2010rig: You're one hell of a fanboy, and every time you open your mouth both to defamate about AMD and to say you're not, you reiterate yourself even more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post
AMD's lack of performance in CS5 vs Nvidia's CUDA. Minus for AMD
Adobe's business. Not AMD's.

Quote:
AMD mobo's are pretty meh - Minus for AMD
Epic LOL. Enough said.

Quote:
Intel's processors were better overall - Minus for AMD
History repeats itself. Not very long ago AMD was stronger. And not a long in the future they will be again.



----quotage


But it's understandable, no one wants to have their precious CPU get beaten.
   
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post #228 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artikbot View Post
@2010rig: You're one hell of a fanboy, and every time you open your mouth both to defamate about AMD and to say you're not, you reiterate yourself even more.

Adobe's business. Not AMD's.

Epic LOL. Enough said.

History repeats itself. Not very long ago AMD was stronger. And not a long in the future they will be again.
----quotage

But it's understandable, no one wants to have their precious CPU get beaten.
did you bother to read my previous post?
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/93...l#post12429345

This was just a summary as to why I chose Intel over AMD - did you even notice that I had a 1090T + a 5870 in my cart for 1 week? I was all set to go with an AMD rig. I didn't build my computer just to play games, as gaming is close to last on my priority list.

A lot of Adobe Premiere was built with CUDA's technology. Why doesn't AMD offer similar performance in CS5? This is the question you should be asking.

It's not my fault AMD's graphics cards under perform in this arena. Yes, it's Adobe's business for choosing to support Nvidia's cards primarily, probably had a lot do with their superior performance, ever thought of that?

I just chose what's best for me. Here, get educated on the topic:
http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...uda-only!.aspx

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-bit,2770.html

Quote:
In order to harness the power of GPU, Adobe took one step back, though. Unlike the OpenGL effects Adobe was using in Creative Suite 4, resulting in sub-optimal acceleration for some GPUs, Premiere Pro CS5 is being built using nVidia CUDA software architecture. Yes, this singlehandedly gives the Adobe CS5 market to nVidia but given the share of nVidia Quadro boards versus ATI FirePro - we can't say we're surprised.

The reason for this decision wasn't a move akin to "The Way It's Meant To Be Played" affairs such as Batmangate or Assassin's Creed, but something more simpler: Adobe needed a stable software toolkit to work on it and according to Dennis: "The 64-bit native code has been announced and now we bring in NVIDIA CUDA technology to be the icing on the cake and a powerful new engine to squeeze out performance in Premiere Pro. Before I wax philosophic on GPU, let me officially tip my hat to the incredible engineers at Adobe and their work here for the Mercury Playback Engine."

If you are wondering what is the real deal with GPGPU API's, there is a telling tale of why Adobe opted to base its Mercury Engine on nVidia's CUDA language. While AMD will tell you that they're all for open standards and push OpenCL, the sad truth is that the company representatives will remain shut when you ask them about the real status of their OpenCL API - especially if you quote them a lead developer from a AAA software company with 10x more employees than AMD themselves that goes something like this: "I struggled to even get ATI's beta drivers installed and working, it was just problem after problem. Maybe once ATI gets their drivers out of beta and actually allow you to install them then I will have some performance numbers. I mean at this point AMD is so far behind in development tools they are not even worth pursuing right now."
The definition of defaming someone is when you are spreading lies. I tried to be as objective as possible in my previous post to show why Intel + Nvidia was a better choice for MY rig.

But once again, you prove the mentality of the people around here, when someone doesn't agree with your AMD opinion, they are labeled a fanboy, an AMDHater, and now a new one they cause "defamation".

Bonus video for your education:


Quote:
History repeats itself. Not very long ago AMD was stronger. And not a long in the future they will be again.
----quotage

But it's understandable, no one wants to have their precious CPU get beaten.
It's so funny you mention that, it deserved its own quote, if you bothered to read my posts, instead of looking for something to criticize, you would know that if BD outperforms SB, I will gladly jump ship.

I am loyal to neither brand, only the one that provides the best performance, and sadly, when I built this rig, AMD was not it, for the many reasons I have stated already, which you didn't bother to read, but glanced at.
Edited by 2010rig - 2/18/11 at 3:12am
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post #229 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by scyy View Post
I love how you talk about how certain sites are biased yet you clearly are one of the most biased people in this thread. You won't even listen to us when we give repeated examples of why at this time AMD can't compete in the high end desktop market. Also why would any of us be nervous? If bulldozer does great it's great for everyone in both price and pushing both sides to advance further. Not everyone has such a ridiculous bias towards whatever company makes their cpu. And PLEASE stop with that played out excuse, complaining about a sites benchmarks being biased is such a cop out it's not even funny. Every single review at every single site showed the exact same thing and that is sandy bridge destroying phenom II's.
its not my problem if somebody does not see weird details on some AT reviews...

one example - in one fusion reviews AT used the newest drivers for intel platform, but unfortunately he "forget" update the drivers on amd system ...


What else expected .. At anandtech are working few ex intel employees...
    
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post #230 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010rig View Post

I made my purchase based on MY overall needs.

1. I chose the 470 over a 5870 ( My 1st choice ) due to the enhanced CUDA performance in CS5. The 5870 could not provide the performance I was after in CS5.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-bit,2770.html

Plus 1 Nvidia.

2. Now that I went with an Nvidia card, I also wanted the option to SLI in the future. Another minus for AMD, since they don't officially support SLI and you have to hack your motherboard to get it to work... Oh wait, since you CAN run SLI on AMD motherboards, why is AMD robbing me of this option? Another MINUS for AMD.

Why should I have to hack my motherboard to run SLI? I get that they sell graphics cards too, but why is AMD preventing me to do so? Isn't that considered "anti-competitive" the very thing AMD whined about?

Most if not ALL Intel boards support SLI or Xfire.

Minus 2 AMD
Plus 1 Intel.


3. I didn't like AMD's motherboards, mainly because of #2, plus overall I found the 1366 board to be very solid, and I had some nice options there, AMD boards were pretty meh in my view.

Plus 1 Intel.
if you prefer/like intel , why do care about anything told in amd subforum..

SLI ?? crossfire ?? you should know, those systems are minority on market, single graphics cards are majority..
Search facts, stop trolling..
Quote:
In order to use SLI, a motherboard with an nForce4, nForce 500, nForce 600 or nForce 700 SLI chipset must be used, although with the use of hacks and older drivers, one can make SLI work on motherboards with Intel, ATI and ULi chipsets.
amd(ati) chipsets dont have sli support, why should they ?
Just like intel compiler does not optimize code for amd cpus, why amd chipsets should optimize for competitors exotic solution..(sli)

If somebody urgently needs SLI support , he will pick board with nForce 980
(rtfm)
Quote:
SLI doesn't always give a performance benefit – in some extreme cases, it can lower the frame rate due to the particulars of an application's coding. This is also true for ATI's CrossFire, as the problem is inherent in multi-GPU systems. This is often witnessed when running an application at low resolutions.
all this nonsense looks like few extreme enthusiasts are only
searching/nitpicking for (non standard) features that amd systems does not have...
What feature next time you will cry about ?
    
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