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[MSNBC] Electronics Not Cause of Toyota Acceleration Issues - Page 6

post #51 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by nist7;12323175 
Oops, I didn't see that you specifically mentioned accident. If that's the case then yes it's unlikely that one can instinctively move the right foot off the gas in emergency situations, although it's not IMPOSSIBLE.

On the other hand what would you suggest though? If we made another "dead pedal" space to the right of the gas pedal people will start resting their right foot there and may accidentally hit the gas pedal. Not to mention you said it yourself that if the person is accelerating his/her foot is already on the gas pedal and if accident occurs there is really nothing the driver can do.

But I think modern cars are probably going to come with electronic throttle cuts in case the car sensors detects certain emergencies (ie if brake pedal is depressed same time, and if airbag goes off or car detects other physical trauma)

So it is not a matter of foot-well design but that of what additional safety systems can cars come with that would basically cut off fuel where it's safe to assume that even if the gas pedal is depressed the driver did it unintentionally.

Unless the person is bracing their feet on both the brake AND the gas at the same time, first safety feature you suggested is useless. These drivers also fail and shouldn't be driving anyway.

If the airbag goes off, it's already too late to decrease throttle. Lol.

Also, most new Toyotas and other makes have DFCO. Which is Deceleration Fuel Cut-off. Whenever your foot is NOT on the throttle, the engine starts slowing you down automatically since it is cut off from fuel. IN automatics it might only do this down to a certain RPM, not sure. My car does it until I accelerate again or if the engine stalls or if I depress the clutch.
Edited by Betrivent - 2/9/11 at 11:51am
post #52 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemaniaci View Post
Why would you guys even want to brace yourselves for an impact? It will only create more injury. There is a reason why drunk drivers walk away from accidents after killing people and it was because they were relaxed and didn't stiffen up their body.
That's true and very interesting. I've heard of that theory as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by joemaniaci
Still, you guys should notice that this is ruling out electronics specifically, it still leaves other things such as floor mats. I even remember watching a video of a toyota mechanic getting interviewed about replacing gas pedals and even he said that there was a problem there. Enough metal on metal contact and the gas pedal starts to stick.
No one, not even Toyota, disputes that floormats are NOT the cause of unintended acceleration. In fact, the original Lexus crash that killed like 5 people were due to the dealer installing two floormats (the top one being from an SUV) and thus causing the gas pedal to get stuck. And of course this can happen to ANY car, not just Toyota. In addition, Toyota and no other auto company that I am aware of recommend or even sanction the use of more than 1 floormat.

And I think Toyota did also accept responsibility for some defectively designed gas pedal that could become sticky. Toyota never denied ALL responsibility in this case. They only denied that their electronics were faulty, which many many people including the media were accusing them of when all these reports of demon Toyotas running wild came about. And how Toyotas are death machines that has some deranged computer that can go rogue and send you into full acceleration at any second.
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post #53 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betrivent View Post
Unless the person is bracing their feet on both the brake AND the gas at the same time, first safety feature you suggested it useless.

If the airbag goes off, it's already too late to decrease throttle. Lol.

Also, most new Toyotas and other makes have DFCO. Which is Deceleration Fuel Cut-off. Whenever your foot is NOT on the throttle, the engine starts slowing you down automatically since it is cut off from fuel. IN automatics it might only do this down to a certain RPM, not sure. My car does it until I accelerate again or if the engine stalls or if I depress the clutch.
Actually, I thought that most modern engines already cut fuel temporarily if you let your foot off the gas? And obviously fuel flow restarts when the engine gets to a certain RPM and fuel must flow again to prevent engine from stalling as you mentioned.

But they are making a feature where if the brake and gas are depressed at same time the computer automatically cuts off the throttle signal. I believe I saw a Nissan already had this feature for a few years now but with this Toyota fiasco it will surely be mandated for all new cars.

In terms of airbag-triggered throttle cut out, it does seem too late, heh. But I remember seeing a VW ad advertising fuel-cut off feature in accidents so as to minimize fires.
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post #54 of 86
I don't really believe cutting off fuel could eliminate fires, I mean it helps if the damage was only in the engine area, but I'd think most of the time fires become an issue because the fuel system outside of the engine bay is damaged, which makes cutting off the fuel redundant. (Though I realize fuel pumps are usually IN the tank now.)

I'm not sure if the throttle would cut itself off when you depress both the brake and the gas. I'm positive that unless you are redlining the brakes should be enough to stop your vehicle. If you wait until it's already redlining to react.. it's too late anyway.

The best solution is if everybody just learned to drive manual.
post #55 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betrivent View Post
I don't really believe cutting off fuel could eliminate fires, I mean it helps if the damage was only in the engine area, but I'd think most of the time fires become an issue because the fuel system outside of the engine bay is damaged, which makes cutting off the fuel redundant. (Though I realize fuel pumps are usually IN the tank now.)

I'm not sure if the throttle would cut itself off when you depress both the brake and the gas. I'm positive that unless you are redlining the brakes should be enough to stop your vehicle. If you wait until it's already redlining to react.. it's too late anyway.

The best solution is if everybody just learned to drive manual.
Completely agree with your last sentence.

As I said before, I've never heard of manual transmission cars/drivers complaining about unintended acceleration.

And it's sad that Toyota got all the crap they did due to sheer human stupidity. But on the other hand, great time to pickup discounted Toyota "demon machines" on the used market for cheap!
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post #56 of 86
No kidding, too bad I:

A) Don't need/want another car
B) Don't want an automatic
C) can't afford a new/used car even if I wanted one tongue.gif
post #57 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post
Wrong. You can't just choose to brace with one foot. When impact happens your legs stabilize as soon as they are physically able to.

There is no where to the right, or the left, to put your foot if you got hit while accelerating. Again, you would not be able to move it anywhere outside of exactly where it is at time of impact anyways.
I don't know what you are talking about but I have never floored the gas when in an "extreme" situation. Probably because I competitively race every now and then, but even on the street, I've never felt the need to use my right foot to brace myself, in fact, I lift off the throttle if I start to lose control. The dead pedal on the left is more than enough.
 
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post #58 of 86
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Originally Posted by Pings View Post
You think? You think! And, you call me ignorant because you think... WOW! What you just did is the definition of ignorant. NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation were doing a ten-month as of the 8th. Popular Mechanics did studies and wrote articles on this from February 9, 2010 to March 3, 2010. That's also mean that the studies where done before the dates published. I think^ that make you ignorant. Fail, don't be a troll.
The results of the study were just released, doesn't mean NASA didn't comment about it a very long time ago.
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post #59 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperXX View Post
You drive an auto? Sounds like its downshifting. My brothers 2003 corolla does that randomly when going up inclines.
Yea, it's an auto, but I've never been anywhere near an incline when it has happened. It could be something wrong with whatever detection it uses to determine if it is on an incline, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyattdoc View Post
The 2007 yaris wasn't even part of the recall.....have you had your car looked at for this problem? Its probably a defective part.
I just figured it was some sort of a design flaw with early models since the year I got this was the first year it was released in the U.S. (and I think it was only out in Europe for like one year prior to that), but I think I'll look into it to satisfy my curiosity. I never got it looked at because the problem occurs rarely and is pretty easy to take care of with one brake tap
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post #60 of 86
Heard about this on the radio. The mechanical problems were a combination of a supplier changing a material in the pedal which under certain temperatures caused problems with the pedal depressing when pressure released. The other half of the problem was floor mats, but not the stock ones. People were putting wrong sized mats in their cars as well as some idiots apparently stacked mats on top of each other for some reason which I can't fathom.
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