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post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
I think that was his exact point. People brag about how PC is so much better yet in alot of cases there is little difference between games natively because of the development process.

In this case why would someone waste however much money to play games on a PC, at the level where hardware will make a difference, when natively there is little difference to justify the short term cost in comparison.

Like he also said, the fact that consoles are pushing out the graphics that they do today, on 5 year old hardware, is pretty incredible. And they're still finding ways to improve on that.

I own both a Xbox 360 and a PC, and while I can say that my PC is overall better, the Xbox 360 is far from bad at doing what it's designed to do.
no, his point is that the massive amount of money we spend on PCs barely handled what a specialized xbox or ps3 does and used me2 and ds2 as examples. Which was horribly and terribly wrong. Which pointed out. As they made no attempt at making putting the time and effort into taking advantage of the PC strengths, while they did everything they could to get every ounce of the console systems.


My modded oblivion game looks as good, if not better than the skyrim screenshots they are releasing.
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post #62 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
As they made no attempt at making putting the time and effort into taking advantage of the PC strengths, while they did everything they could to get every ounce of the console systems.
That was the point.

At least how I saw it anyway.

So with that in mind, why buy a PC (one of equal level or higher than a current console) to game?

Unless you get into the whole modding scene to make games look better there's little point to currently other than playing select games that you can't buy on consoles.

In either event just buy whatever suits the individual. A PC can be stronger, depending on what you put into it, and what you modify the game with (which for some games can be quite a process to research and install), a console gives you more instant access without all the hassle. Both run games just fine with playable frame rates in most cases and there's little point to any argument over the preferences of an individual.

Let the console gamers enjoy their consoles and let the PC gamers enjoy their PCs.
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post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
That was the point.

At least how I saw it anyway.

So with that in mind, why buy a PC (one of equal level or higher than a current console) to game?

Unless you get into the whole modding scene to make games look better there's little point to currently other than playing select games that you can't buy on consoles.

In either event just buy whatever suits the individual. A PC can be stronger, depending on what you put into it, and what you modify the game with (which for some games can be quite a process to research and install), a console gives you more instant access without all the hassle. Both run games just fine with playable frame rates in most cases and there's little point to any argument over the preferences of an individual.

Let the console gamers enjoy their consoles and let the PC gamers enjoy their PCs.
sorry 64 player battlefield 3 with dx11 sounds better than 24 battlefield 3 on a console.

64 red orchestra 2 also.

In a perfect world where money was not an option, pc wins everytime. The only time consoles win is if you figure that its a budget gamer. And thats fine. But There is no comparision between a console vs PC in terms of graphics potential, and gameplay. You can create games that are more advanced visually, and in complexity because of the input tools.

I have no problem with people gaming on consoles, if they have fun with it, more power to them, but they also need to realize that its not a ferrari, its a lancer.
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post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
sorry 64 player battlefield 3 with dx11 sounds better than 24 battlefield 3 on a console.

64 red orchestra 2 also.
More players does not always mean a better game.

Quote:
In a perfect world where money was not an option, pc wins everytime.
Sadly we do not live in a perfect world.

Quote:
The only time consoles win is if you figure that its a budget gamer. And thats fine.
I see it more along the lines of short term and long term investment personally.

Quote:
But There is no comparision between a console vs PC in terms of graphics potential, and gameplay. You can create games that are more advanced visually, and in complexity because of the input tools.
I think I already made note of this. It's a great option to have, but it's not for everyone. Some people just want to play the game not mess around with tons of other stuff just to make it look better, especially when it looks ok as it is.

With that said it is pretty nice that games can be made to look better on a PC. A good way to hide a games age for sure.

Quote:
I have no problem with people gaming on consoles, if they have fun with it, more power to them, but they also need to realize that its not a ferrari, its a lancer.
Not that there's anything wrong with a Lancer mind.
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post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshield View Post
More players does not always mean a better game.
It does in a game like battlefield. I am not to sure which game I wouldn't prefer to have more people playing actually.
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post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by [nK]Sharp View Post
It does in a game like battlefield. I am not to sure which game I wouldn't prefer to have more people playing actually.
On a smaller map it would be over-crowded.
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post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenixlight View Post
On a smaller map it would be over-crowded.
That is why they have them scaled....
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post #68 of 72
Speaking from the standpoint of someone who both plays as a console and PC gamer (and I don't consider myself a "fanboy" of either) - when I look at which side I prefer to play games on, I would choose console any day. I say this simply because when I think about the FUNCTION of a particular system (in my case, my PC and my Xbox) I prefer to use my pc as more of a "productivity" tool (with the frequent mixing-in of media related applications) and my xbox functions well as a dedicated gaming/media module... I care more about gameplay, story, and substance than simply what it "looks" like. Take for example, Medal of Honor on the Xbox 360. The storyline was nice, but the design of the online multiplayer was mediocre at best. The game was "average", and no amount of graphical improvement would have made it a more enjoyable gaming experience for me... Some people disagree on that point, but as far as my gaming goes, a stellar image doesn't make a good game.

in short: if you played Barbie Horse Adventure: Wild Horse Rescue in 1080p... It would still be a Barbie game.

Edit: Didn't realize why that sounded familiar until I looked at my sig.

XD
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post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by smorgan View Post
Speaking from the standpoint of someone who both plays as a console and PC gamer (and I don't consider myself a "fanboy" of either) - when I look at which side I prefer to play games on, I would choose console any day. I say this simply because when I think about the FUNCTION of a particular system (in my case, my PC and my Xbox) I prefer to use my pc as more of a "productivity" tool (with the frequent mixing-in of media related applications) and my xbox functions well as a dedicated gaming/media module... I care more about gameplay, story, and substance than simply what it "looks" like. Take for example, Medal of Honor on the Xbox 360. The storyline was nice, but the design of the online multiplayer was mediocre at best. The game was "average", and no amount of graphical improvement would have made it a more enjoyable gaming experience for me... Some people disagree on that point, but as far as my gaming goes, a stellar image doesn't make a good game.

in short: if you played Barbie Horse Adventure: Wild Horse Rescue in 1080p... It would still be a Barbie game.

Edit: Didn't realize why that sounded familiar until I looked at my sig.

XD
no one here is saying that graphics make the game, but graphics can make a great game even better.

Graphics help immense you in the world. Just like in movies, proper realization of the world is a requirement.
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post #70 of 72
Quote:
no, his point is that the massive amount of money we spend on PCs barely handled what a specialized xbox or ps3 does and used me2 and ds2 as examples. Which was horribly and terribly wrong. Which pointed out. As they made no attempt at making putting the time and effort into taking advantage of the PC strengths, while they did everything they could to get every ounce of the console systems.
No - that's not what I'm saying. PCs handle ME2 and DS2 fine. Never did I say they can barely handle it.

Quote:
People brag about how PC is so much better yet in alot of cases there is little difference between games natively because of the development process.
that sums it up nicely in 1 go.

The differences between some games are so minimal, that for PC users to brag about it is just flat out sad. Bragging about something like Crysis is one thing. To sit and brag about something like Mafia II, DS2, ME2, MoH, L4D, and DR2 off the top of my head isn't right at all. Their differences are miniscule in comparison to what it should be. PC gaming isn't above all. It should be, but right now - all things considering - it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
Just because in the case of DS2 and ME2, the developer decided not to take advantage of optimizing and using the advantages of PC gaming, such as additional memory for increased texture size, doesnt make console game even close to PC gaming. Sure the games do look good, but they could look so much better on the PC if the developer had taken the time to do it, instead of creating a weakass port. They didnt give the PC the same attention as they did the console, as they tried to get every ounce of power out of the console, and simply forced the PC to make do with what the xbox has.
My question is - what games actually do make use of PC gaming and the hundreds of dollars spent on it? For real? The only two games that truly do are STALKER and of course, for the past 4+ years, Crysis.
BF:BC2 is a runner up, but even then - I've played BC2 on both the 360 and PS3 and in comparison it isn't too bad graphically.

DMC4 and RE5 were fantastic ports that truly showed that developers, if they use the time, can make ports that look fantastic on the PC as compared to the 360 while at the same time still not justify $800 cutting edge cards. My 8800GTX SLi can play those two games at 1920x1080 with DX10 at max settings which blow away most games on the PC by a long shot with 60-100FPS+. My 4870x2 maintains a solid 100FPS at all times with both games as well (a little less with RE5).

If I were to upgrade to a Fermi right now, what games would actually really make use of it? Metro 2033? I think that game has some nice effects, but overall it's really not that nice looking of a game. I think CoD:Black Ops beats it out in several ways on both the consoles and PC.


Quote:
You generally make decent arguments omega, but this is terribad. I'm talking rogue warrior bad.

http://www.robbaz.com/

go look at the GTA ones, and look at the modded one and compare it to consoles. The modded one is a comparision should be made by. As the modded is pushing the PC to the max the same as the regular version of the game is pushing Xbox/ps3 to the max. Lets compare a modded up Oblivion or fallout to a console oblivion or fallout.
I believe we've had a very similar if not exact same conversation about Fallout and GTA. I don't think we mentioned Oblivion.
These games are sandbox. They have a need for large amounts of memory at all times. The only reasons the consoles don't put out well enough in comparison to the PC is because they have such minuscule amounts of memory. BUT: if you look at games like Assassin's Creed 1,2, and Bro - developers can still make due but Fallout and GTA are just not developed entirely well.
Fallout first of all is a horrible port to the consoles. Especially on the PS3. If you look at the contents of Fallout 3 and New Vegas on the PS3 - you'll notice a ton of extra data that the 360 doesn't have. The reason being that the developers thought they should take advantage of Bluray. Great. But in their eagerness to take advantage of something good, they forgot the negatives. The PS3's bluray drive is slow and if you're going to make an open world sandbox game for it you have to make sure you take that into account. So they made the game look alot worse, and have alot of loading times, for no particular reason whatsoever. On the 360, they make it work but again - it's one of those games that just isn't using the console's memory limitations correctly.

GTA is another example of how open world games on consoles are massive exceptions to most of my post. The video ram on the PS3 is slightly less than that of the 360. That makes such a dramatic difference. The 360 looks pretty good though even in comparison to a decent PC. Though, if you have an expensive rig - then GTA puts out. It's one of those rare cases where the dev actually took advantage of all that memory goodness alot of PCs have. Problem is though, is it worth all the trouble? GTA on the PC is riddle with infinite amount of bugs and performance problems. I remember when it came out, there wasn't a single person who got it working correctly. It's like the game was too demanding even though it certainly isn't THAT great of a looking game like Crysis. It made no sense.

Quote:
Games are truly on a different level on the PC, but very few developers actually push it that far anymore. its more or less left up to modders to push the PC games to PC gaming level.
Exactly. That's the problem. Why spend $1k+ on something that isn't been used correctly?
Let's go back to Fallout 3. Sure. The game looks pretty taken back on the 360. But can you justify spending $300-700 more just to make it look somewhat better? Fallout can be a pretty amazing looking game on the PC, but if consoles had even the slightest amount more RAM: it'd be a pretty similar result. Which is why sandbox games can be difficult to even begin to compare. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Assasin's Creed Brotherhood is an example. Looks and performs amazing on both consoles. GTA - not so much. Why? Development.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vhati View Post
sorry 64 player battlefield 3 with dx11 sounds better than 24 battlefield 3 on a console.

64 red orchestra 2 also.
Ok sure. But those games aren't even out yet and there isn't even a reason to begin comparing those when you can't draw any conclusions about the way the game looks or play. Both those games have equal potential of turning out horrible on the PC and/or consoles, while unlikely especially with BF3, we just don't know yet.

Quote:
In a perfect world where money was not an option, pc wins everytime. The only time consoles win is if you figure that its a budget gamer.
Not entirely. Problems always come up with PC gaming. Whether it be DRM, driver issues, and bugs - PC gaming has plenty of downsides.
I haven't been able to play PC gaming in almost 5 months. Why? ATi has broken my 4870x2 with their drivers and I can't get them working no matter what I do. That means I have to go out and buy a new graphics card that's going to cost as much as a new console. And for what? What games actually justify the $300-800 price tags some of these monsters have? Which leads me to my next point:

Quote:
And thats fine. But There is no comparision between a console vs PC in terms of graphics potential, and gameplay. You can create games that are more advanced visually, and in complexity because of the input tools.
Potential is the key word. Sure, developers can create games that are visually mind blowing and 100x more complexer than ones on the PC. For example: GTA and Fallout 3 mainly because of those RAM limitations. But: they could look infinitely better which developers used the potential.

Right now, if someone were to ask me which should I go - PC or console - I'd say console for now.
PC gaming has massive potential that hasn't been tapped into. I believe it will be once a newer generation of consoles come out. Which is soon, imo. I can see a new PS or Xbox in the next one or two years (at least announced) which is why I'd suggest a console for now. They're cheap, provide fantastic visuals that don't cost an arm/leg, will last you a few years, and you get a ton of games that are absolutely amazing that you will never find on the PC (Killzone, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Gran Turismo, GoW, Gears, Halo, Forza, ect ect)

Unless you're talking MMO. Then, a budget PC for WoW would be the only option.

I'm not bashing PC gaming. This is a PC enthusiast forum, I'm a member, who am I kidding. I just think PC has slowed down completely especially with graphics. It's completely stopped. I don't blame the consoles for it either. I blame the developers, piracy, and more importantly the publishers who aren't giving PC what it deserves. They have audiences that are ready for the next Crysis-type beast Oblivion-open-world-sandbox but no one seems to be putting their foot forward and say "We'll do it" because their afraid of piracy, development time, and potential market loss due to the consoles being the leading market.

The only reason I'm posting in this thread is because I read the first couple of pages and I saw nothing but ignorance. "My computer will blow that xbox out of the water!" Of course it will, it only cost you a fortune more. But not only that - what have you got to show for it aside from a 4-5 year old game called Crysis? Barely anything worth mentioning. AA and native resolution aren't everything in a game. Developers need to push higher texture resolution and taxing physics which seldom few games and ports have for no reason whatsoever. Copy-pasta ports don't cut it anymore when you're paying $2k for a computer. And 90% of PC gaming at this point seem to be just that over the past 3 years.

EDIT:
Meh - scanning through the post again, I see I'm just repeating alot of what I've been saying and it's just chains of reoccuring thoughts. Not entirely cohesive but it'll have to do.
Edited by OmegaNemesis28 - 2/12/11 at 2:50am
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