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[ZeroPaid] Sony Demands IP Addresses of YouTube PS3 Hack Viewers - Page 23

post #221 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
Ok, progress. You acknowledge it is legal. Good start.
Well to be fair I've never claimed nor thought otherwise, so I'd hardly call it a "start" at this point.

Quote:
Now, as for ethics.
While ethics is relative and should be completely absent from such scenarios, I'll humor you. You believe it is unethical for Sony to have removed a feature. They removed the feature to protect the console and content, along with other players. It was a hacker's loophole.
This I've gone through before. I don't know see how it would protect other players. A console hacker (also note that I'm using "hacker" to refer to someone who breaks/broke the system with malicious intent, like running pirated games, rather than your honest homebrew-otheros-yadayada hackers) won't go around blatantly wallhacking, aimbotting and generally ruining other people's games since that's a surefire way to get his console banned. Rather, he'd do that to, well like I said, pirate. Get free stuff. I, with what little knowledge I have of the PS3, see no way in which hacking would affect other users.

Now, for the "protection from piracy" part. This I'm not entirely sure about. I've never seen any concrete evidence anywhere that the feature could indeed be used to crack the system - it sounds more like high-ups who are more concerned with profit than the technical side of things overreacting.

Quote:
So, the "ethics" sets in. Remove a feature a small fraction of people specifically bought the console for, in return saving countless of resources of inevitable exploits and protecting the integrity of development and network play. Or, keep the feature and satisfy the small fraction, and risk having exploit after exploit, damaging the community and integrity of the system. Logically, it makes more sense to satisfy the larger community and protect the original, main function of the console.
See latter part of above. I don't believe the feature had as high potential for damage as it was made out to.

Quote:
At this point in time however, it is ironic. Though at the particular time when the decision was made, the more ethical choice was picked. It comes down to, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Not to mention... This "ethics" thing doesn't fly with this situation. According to Geo, this is an eye for an eye scenario.
Not sure what you mean by bolded part. If you mean "protecting the community and other players", or the majority of PS3 users - well, like I said, I don't believe the removal of the feature actually achieves this. Also, I don't believe that doing wrong to a minority to "protect" the majority is right (read on for more).

Quote:
Are you saying it is ethical to crack a closed source system and publicly spreading it knowing it will cause monetary damage?
Of course now, but it's always more complicated than this. Is it right to release info for a legitimate cause with even higher potential for misuse? In the end, I would say yes. I really don't side with the "majority argument" - better ten guilty be free than one innocent be punished. Of course, this isn't a rule that applies always, but in general I tend to think that if a technology, piece of information, a program, anything has a valid legitimate use, one shouldn't attempt to remove or criminalise it, even when the majority use it for a wrong cause.

Quote:
Now, personally I believe this otherOS thing is a complete BS scapegoat. The kid is arrogant and greedy, I have theories of his real reasoning, but I'm not buying that he did it for otherOS.
Well, my personal belief on the matter, of course, is different. I make no judgement on his personality by what I read on the news, of course. The only thing I agree on is that he wouldn't do that only for this otherOS feature, but I'm not going to say that the "other reasons" are arrogance or greed.

Also, a note: I don't know everything. I will always reconsider my stance on an issue when they're challenged with solid facts and irrefutable evidence. At the moment, though, I'm simply not convinced that the threat was anywhere near great enough to warrant removal of a feature, however small the number of people actually making use of it.

LAST ADDENDUM TO MY WALL OF TEXT:
I do believe that, regardless of the scenario, considering subjective matters as well is very important and that ethical considerations are no less important than what the book of law says.
post #222 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onions View Post
see my .02 cents ....

so here it is. If i buy something, its mine. right? thats the way it works i payed for the hardware, and teh firmware that come installed on it. Its mine and it now belongs to me. Just ssaying this is stupid besides its the internet sony will never be able to get rid of that root key XD.
This is how I see it too. How can anyone defend Sony?

Protecting others? What does that mean? Nobody here has a clue what it means, it's just a sentence thrown out by the legal and marketing department, without it meaning anything other than " Please don't do this ". Soon we'll get some real bs story about how a hacked Sony will be able to take control of telephone towers, hijack a submarine, launch the worlds nukes and give the middle finger to martians.

At the end of the day, when you buy the hardware it's yours. If you want to do something to it that voids your warranty, good for you. Otherwise manufacturers can **** and die in a fire, for all I care. If I wanted to hear their opinion on whether I should or shouldn't run Windows, Linux or whatever else on my machine I'd ask an expert, not them. All this and stamping their feet like petulant children simply makes me want to throw up.

As for your EULA and laws: LOllaws and lolEULA's.
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post #223 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by _GTech View Post
Oh my, you guys may like this one too...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2...4C89E3E5479844

Interesting.
Around the ten second mark he refers to the PS3 as "computer entertainment" instead of a gaming console.
post #224 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
What?
Bad grammar is bad, yo.
You lost me at "employees don't".

That doesn't surprise me.
If Sony had hired on some of these hackers,they might not be in the spot they are today.
They should learn how to write code instead of patching up holes after their boat starts leaking.
Morons.
post #225 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post
This is how I see it too. How can anyone defend Sony?

Protecting others? What does that mean? Nobody here has a clue what it means, it's just a sentence thrown out by the legal and marketing department, without it meaning anything other than " Please don't do this ". Soon we'll get some real bs story about how a hacked Sony will be able to take control of telephone towers, hijack a submarine, launch the worlds nukes and give the middle finger to martians.

At the end of the day, when you buy the hardware it's yours. If you want to do something to it that voids your warranty, good for you. Otherwise manufacturers can **** and die in a fire, for all I care. If I wanted to hear their opinion on whether I should or shouldn't run Windows, Linux or whatever else on my machine I'd ask an expert, not them. All this and stamping their feet like petulant children simply makes me want to throw up.

As for your EULA and laws: LOllaws and lolEULA's.

Agreed.
Apparently when you buy a PS3,you agree to let them "update" their operating system to make the unit more "functional and secure".
When they break the O/S on their PS3 so you can't run other O/S's,did they improve it for your sake or their sake?
Should you not be able to say that you don't want their "upgrade" like you can with M/Soft?
If I want to run SP1 on my liscensed machine,I have every right to.
If I want to alter the code in said O/S to do something a little different,I can.
No one's going to bang down my door for it.
I this case,if I had one of these,I would clone the drive in my PS3 and run that.

BTW: Does anyone remember what happened a number of years ago when Sony downloaded rootkits [IIRC] from CD's when they were inserted in your computer?
OOPSY!
Major lawsuit and they paid.
Apparently they claimed they were trying to protect their content back then too.
Go figure.
I got one of those bugs and my A/V suite had to remove it.
Thank God for Kaspersky.
Edited by The Radius Kid - 2/13/11 at 4:33am
post #226 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
On what principle, that content should be allowed to be exploited and terms of services are meaningless? You people are hopeless. Plus Sony products have never been bad, but usually innovative. They are usually over priced, but never "bad".

Also, the posts here where people believe Sony is wanting to go after all viewers of the video are ridiculous. It truly shows how stupid people are.
I agree with you, however I will not buy Sony on the principle that they are overreacting and being foolish.

All of the Sony products I've ever owned in the past were fantastic and I loved them. They were relatively high quality, did what I want and had a decent lifetime and were usually replaced before they even broke.

That being said, I've never owned any version of the PS and never will. Especially with their 'sue everyone' mentality, (regardless if that's actually what they'll do or not), I just see them acting irrationally and seem to only be acting out of spite.

Protecting your product, security and technology? Perfectly sensible. Trying to strongarm the community while acting like a sore loser? I'll take my business to a company that doesn't give me the sense that they're failing about the deep end of the pool right before they drown willing to pull anyone and anything in to save themselves.

Sony's actions and attitude have some pretty bad stink associated with them now and by the time they realize how badly this will portray their company, it'll be too late. Their actions will hurt their long term profit potential and it's their own fault.
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post #227 of 278
Well hell let me go watch it now !!
post #228 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
You may have missed when I said it, but Samsung uses the EXACT same panel production facility that Sony uses. Samsung owns 51% of the factory, Sony owns 49% of it. In saying you "would take a Samsung TV over a Sony any day of the week" you are pretty much claiming Samsung is top quality over Sony, which is a joke of a claim. And Panasonic??? Pffft...
Then why are Sony TVs such garbage these days? Oh, Samsung probably takes all the good LCD panels, and gives Sony the defective units. Of course, it's not just the panels that come into play, but in all of the supporting electronics, the ability to properly decode signals, backlighting, and set design that one has to factor in - and in those, Samsung is far ahead of the schlock Sony is putting out.

In the old days, Toyota and GM had joint ventures, and really, it was the same thing, the Corolla was so much better than the Nova, and the Matrix was better than the Vibe...
post #229 of 278
Silly sony, shouldn't have removed the ability rto install another os in the first place...
    
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post #230 of 278
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Originally Posted by Megas3300 View Post
Do they own the games that people pirate. Most likely no.
No, they don't, but they make a huge profit out of it. In case you're not aware, PS3 units are sold at cost. Sony makes all their PS3 profit off PS3 DLC, accessories, and games.
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