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[LazyGamer]PS3 Hacker GeoHot Attacks Sony with Hip-Hop - Page 19

post #181 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by postama View Post
Even if they wanted to block it they should only prosecute people that hack the Ps3 and then run pirated games, not people that hack it to enable a feature that was advertised.
I think they should prosecute the pirates - not the people that are just using a machine that has been modified. I don't see MS prosecuting people because they use an "unapproved" wallpaper, "unapproved" themes, or "unapproved" applications like Open Office.

Sony should be prosecuted for wasting the taxpayer's money in stupid, frivolous lawsuits. GeoHot simply Jailbroke his machine to make it useful. If this succeeds, then everyone that upgrades their BIOS or updates a device driver should have to serve time in prison and have all of their possessions stolen by the Corporations. Oh, and Overclocking - big illegal activity, using something by hacking it, even though the Corporates said no.
post #182 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
It is one thing getting the acronym wrong, but it is another to completely misunderstand the purpose of the DMCA and then trying to use it in an argument. The DMCA is there to protect copyrights and other intellectual property, which Geo violated...

That takes resources. Resources cost money. Either way, what Geo did is causing monetary damage. Guilty&Sue.
GeoHot did not violate the DMCA - he did not reverse engineer a system in order to produce his own clone machine that would compete in the market against Sony. Sony claims "damages" even though they have not lost even one thin cent in the process.

If Sony chooses to daddle in stupid and pointless persecution of hobbyists, that's their choice. They can't claim damages and seek punative fines when it is their corporate stupidity that has been the root cause of all of their purported damages.

Quote:
Like I, and other people, have said before. Windows wouldn't exist without the development of other people. They want, they ask, they beg you to create things for their platform, as long as it isn't breaking any laws. Take a program like Photoshop and reverse engineer and find a security flaw that allows complete redistribution without serials, and that would be liable for class action lawsuit from Adobe.
Class action lawsuit? Adobe would be a single entity, not a Class, and couldn't participate in a class action lawsuit.

Windows is not an open system either. MS could make the case that if anyone engineered any software for their system without paying for an SDK and following their guidelines exactly, those errant developers would be subject to prosecution. MS could claim that software that is capable of modifying say, a DOCX file, like a text editor, would be subject to such things, because they could claim that a text editor violates their rights under the DCMA because they would suffer damages by not selling that copy of Word.

None of this holds any water. GeoHot simply unlocked his machine, a mod like all other mods, and did no damage to Sony; and in fact, provided improvement and benefits by removing those things that impeded the operation of the PS3.

Quote:
That gives the specific law of "jailbreaking". Completely different from consoles. It specifically calls out wireless telephone handsets.
There is no difference. The law lags because the creation of Jailed devices is new to consoles, being adopted from the cell phone industry. Jailing is simply fraud, and companies that provide Jailed equipment should be charged for selling devices fraudulently, because they can not operate as advertised.
post #183 of 256
The only reason Microsoft is being so nice towards the jailbreaking community at this point in time is because they need market share. If they ever dominate the mobile landscape(which I highly doubt) they would immediately reverse direction and start going after "counterfeit" firmware distributors and integrate some form of WGA again.
post #184 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
Actually, if you can read, I have responded many times to people within this thread. Comprehension also fails you, as I've never point-blank called anyone an idiot as you state that I have.

Playstation cannot close the security hole with new firmware. It's just not possible. Developers are now worried because their games will be easily pirated. Customers are worried because they'll face waves of cheaters and phishing scams.

You can argue that Geohot's hack hasn't done any damage but that's far from the truth. Sony wouldn't be in such a huff if it didn't. People were hacking using USB thumb-drives before and Sony didn't launch a massive legal suit against any of them. Why then, do you suppose they are now? The answer is quite simple if you actually read what the security hole does and not just take what all the kiddies are saying.

And again, don't try and use the DMCA act in this. It has nothing to do with consoles and solely includes phones.
Right, because saying someone has an IQ of 7 isn't implying it.

Once again, Sony can run server-side checks to make sure you're running official Sony firmware, they can't close the hole but they sure as hell can control its ability to hurt people not using said hole for whatever reason, they're just going the lazy route.

And the difference is what? Names? I'll be willing to bet there will be an update to the DCMA adding in consoles sometime soon, afterall, there is no difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Yes, that app was on the official Apple App store, it was $20 and has disappeared and reappeared several times through the years. If you read the article, you'll see that the piracy hole was a huge mistake of Apple. That September 2010 article is just a site that found out out about it when it was old news, and actually I'm pretty sure it's sites like that one that made Apple aware of the app.

That's not even an advertisement. That's a user's manual, just like Sony argued in court. Court decided "complainants have failed to bring evidence of any advertisement of the OtherOS feature. Instead, they have combined bits and pieces of lines from third party articles and the User Manual."

I think you've misunderstood. How does my link prove me wrong? I've BEEN saying that you CAN download pirated copies paid iPhone apps for free without jailbreaking. I think you're misunderstanding me on that.
Wait, so the app wasn't reliably available? In that case, Jailbreaking added a reliable way of piracy that works with any version of iOS, at the very least.

Yeah, the funny thing is it says "For System Software 3.55" when it was removed then.

You said for $20 and now for free, the app (In your own words) is not readily available on the App Store at all times and Jailbreaking still lets you pirate apps, so tell me again how Jailbreaking doesn't let you pirate apps? Apart from enabling you to pirate apps on any version of iOS at any time quite easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
As if that is relevant. The PS3 still out performs due to its allocated power, the hardware comparison between the two is a stupid argument and off topic.


http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2010/10-169.html
That gives the specific law of "jailbreaking". Completely different from consoles. It specifically calls out wireless telephone handsets.
Someone posted that the PS3 is faster than the Xbox, when both are fully utilized it's relatively equal. (Cell making up for the 360s faster GPU and eDRAM)

Replace wireless telephone handsets with home video game console, the entire process is exactly the same, don't you think someone in the legal system will notice that?
    
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post #185 of 256
Not bad for a nerd...
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post #186 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post

Replace wireless telephone handsets with home video game console, the entire process is exactly the same, don't you think someone in the legal system will notice that?
No, it doesn't work like that. You can't just replace terms, especially in law.
There are always exceptions. Such as, you aren't allowed to drive four-wheelers on main roads, or ride Segways on sidewalks (UK). Just because I can drive a car on the main roads, or ride a scooter on the sidewalks, does that mean I have every right to take a four-wheeler on the interstate? Or embarrassingly ride a Segway on the sidewalk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
GeoHot did not violate the DMCA - he did not reverse engineer a system in order to produce his own clone machine that would compete in the market against Sony. Sony claims "damages" even though they have not lost even one thin cent in the process.
He is modifying and redistributing firmware that he does not have the rights to. So yes, he did reverse engineer and redistribute. Not to mention, he broke a "contract" when he did the hack anyway, which alone is enough to go to court over. Reverse engineering was against the terms he voluntarily agreed to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
If Sony chooses to daddle in stupid and pointless persecution of hobbyists, that's their choice. They can't claim damages and seek punative fines when it is their corporate stupidity that has been the root cause of all of their purported damages.
That is what YOU think. Which, like said before, is completely irrelevant. They are only losing respect and sales from closed minded, ignorant geeks who have a warm place in their heart for losers like Geo. So they lose sales to people pro-piracy, and pro-exploiting their system. Big deal, that isn't the kicker. The kicker is, all of the developers know their content can be stolen if Sony doesn't act. These people who are angry may never buy another Sony product again, but I guarantee you that if they already have a Playstation, they will continue to buy games. These games won't publish, or sale, if people are stealing them.
[/QUOTE]


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Class action lawsuit? Adobe would be a single entity, not a Class, and couldn't participate in a class action lawsuit.
Good call. Point still stands though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Windows is not an open system either. MS could make the case that if anyone engineered any software for their system without paying for an SDK and following their guidelines exactly, those errant developers would be subject to prosecution. MS could claim that software that is capable of modifying say, a DOCX file, like a text editor, would be subject to such things, because they could claim that a text editor violates their rights under the DCMA because they would suffer damages by not selling that copy of Word.
They could, but they don't. They don't want that, which means they openly allow anyone to write content for their platform. I don't mean open like Linux, but open to development. If I wanted to, I could create an entirely new shell for windows and distribute it, as long as I don't break any laws and Microsoft would look down and say, "Son, I'm proud". Microsoft is nothing without voluntary, hobby thrived, developers. Don't you remember what Balmer said, Developers x10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
None of this holds any water. GeoHot simply unlocked his machine, a mod like all other mods, and did no damage to Sony; and in fact, provided improvement and benefits by removing those things that impeded the operation of the PS3.
When will you understand, it wasn't for Linux. That is his excuse which he will hold on to for dear life. No one breaks a system open that wide for linux on a console. Nothing "impeded" the PS3, it was perfectly fine. So you want unofficial content and emulators? Well, what you want does not matter. Read that again, what you want does not matter. When you use your PS3, you agree to the terms that Sony owns the software, you just use it, they do what is necessary to keep things running smoothly. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Not to mention, they didn't make you update. Why do people continue to insist that Sony completely screwed people by removing it? You could keep Linux all you want, as long as you want, as long as you don't update. That would only remove your ability for future features and the PSN, which is what everyone here Pro-Geo seem to keep suggesting. "Just allow the hack and content theft as long as they can't get on PSN". That is how it always has been, minus content theft. You all screwed yourself over, and now you want someone to blame it on. Who better than the massive corporation suing some arrogant prick?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
There is no difference. The law lags because the creation of Jailed devices is new to consoles, being adopted from the cell phone industry. Jailing is simply fraud, and companies that provide Jailed equipment should be charged for selling devices fraudulently, because they can not operate as advertised.
You said so yourself, and the last time I checked, Fraud is prosecutable, and clearly a crime.
Ok, so I am going to go rip CD, an entire CD. I will make copies of this CD, but put an extra song on it that isn't on the original. 19 of the 20 songs are the same, 1 of them is from an older album. I now give them out to people, for free. Am I doing something wrong here? Am I breaking any laws? Should I get pissy and make a rap video if the publishers of the original 19 song album sues me? But, but, that is unfair! I am just adding something to it that should have been on there from the beginning! EVIL CORPORATIONS!!!!EVILLLLLLL!
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post #187 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brutuz View Post
Right, because saying someone has an IQ of 7 isn't implying it.

Once again, Sony can run server-side checks to make sure you're running official Sony firmware, they can't close the hole but they sure as hell can control its ability to hurt people not using said hole for whatever reason, they're just going the lazy route.

And the difference is what? Names? I'll be willing to bet there will be an update to the DCMA adding in consoles sometime soon, afterall, there is no difference
So? Implying doesn't mean stating.

Again, Sony CANNOT run a server-side check. That's not how this works. This hack can be completely transparent of the firmware. You can use it on any and all firmware and not be tracked. So, once again, you're wrong, and don't know what you're talking about.

You can "bet" all you want. And surprise, consoles are NOT phones. If the legal definition of the DMCA (not the DCMA, as you put it, which further proves your lack of knowledge on this subject) calls attention to Telephones, that doesn't mean consoles, or DVR's, or DVD players, it solely limits the law to telephones. Each have a separate function, correct? But according to you, they don't.

Your arguments are filled will holes and lies and untruths. Please come back once you understand the scope and ramifications of the subject.
post #188 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
GeoHot did not violate the DMCA - he did not reverse engineer a system in order to produce his own clone machine that would compete in the market against Sony.
GeoHot absolutely violated the DMCA. Wikipedia's article on the DMCA says it best, right in the first paragraph:

Quote:
It also criminalizes the act of circumventing an access control, whether or not there is actual infringement of copyright itself.
That is precisely what GeoHot has done.

I'm not defending the DMCA here, everyone who follows my posts knows that I despise it as one of the most egregious infringements on consumers in most of our lives to date. But the fact is that the DMCA is the law of the land, and GeoHot has clearly violated the letter of the law.

And the only reason the iPhone/FCC ruling is remotely interesting it because it too seems contrary to the letter of the DMCA law. Thus the DMCA is weakened...and thus, further litigations (by one Mr. GeoHot, perhaps) could weaken it further.

Quote:
There is no difference. The law lags because the creation of Jailed devices is new to consoles, being adopted from the cell phone industry.
Um...bzzt, thanks for playing. But consoles have been employing copy protection mechanisms (I continue to refuse to use "jailing", and all of you need to darn well stop it too) since DVDs became the software distribution medium. So we're talking PS1 here...released in 1994. Since the concept of an app on a cell phone was ridiculous science fiction claptrap in 1994, it is fair to say that consoles did NOT steal the process from mobile phones.

Quote:
Jailing is simply fraud, and companies that provide Jailed equipment should be charged for selling devices fraudulently, because they can not operate as advertised.
*sigh* Such hyperbole. Rhetoric is only effective when it's true, my friend. My iPhone, my XBox, my PS3, and my Wii are all locked with their standard copy protection; and they all work exactly as advertised. No fruad has been committed; and frankly, if I were the legal department for any of those companies, statements like the one you just made would be considered libelous and subject to litigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoopaScoopa View Post
The only reason Microsoft is being so nice towards the jailbreaking community at this point in time is because they need market share.
True dat, true dat. No such thing as bad publicity for Windows Mobile at this point.
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post #189 of 256
will it make Sony like him more? No. Will it make people like him more? Quite possibly. Did I laugh at Sony's expense because they're a bunch of dumb f****? You bet.
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post #190 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
they didn't make you update
Yes the did. If you don't update you lose network/market access. *** is the point of a modern gaming console without network access? None.

No matter how you base this around the false guise of "piracy is killing everything", the simple truth is Sony is putting all of their resources and work into the wrong thing.

When Sony stumbles onto a massive PS3 game piracy ring -- by all means sue. But a dude who does this as a hobby for fun -- don't be ridiculous. From the rest of your comments it appears you have some in at Sony or monthly stipend. People who actually care about THEIR legally purchased goods don't take it too kindly when companies such as Sony walk all over them as they are doing to Geohot.

Citing the DMCA doesn't help your pro-Sony case either. The DMCA is one of the worst, anti-consumer technology bills ever signed into law. It is the creation of nothing more than big content owners and a few fat cats who manipulate and lobby their personal agendas on Washington.
Edited by thecyb0rg - 2/15/11 at 5:00pm
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