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[LazyGamer]PS3 Hacker GeoHot Attacks Sony with Hip-Hop - Page 24

post #231 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorkyFan View Post
Except that I am an accomplished hacker so..
Your credibility is only as good as your word, and by statistical analysis of your posting history, one can conclude you lack such. Thus, anyone can say they are accomplished at something without producing proof. Not to mention, "accomplished" is a relative term. Pulling up task manager isn't hacking.
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post #232 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
No. The DMCA only applied it to Phones, not any other hardware.
Sooo....the upcoming PSP phone then.....awesome potential?
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post #233 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriedSushi87 View Post
Sooo....the upcoming PSP phone then.....awesome potential?
The Xperia. I wouldn't say "awesome", but yeah.
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post #234 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
The Xperia. I wouldn't say "awesome", but yeah.
If Sony's stance on the PS3 hacking, CD rootkits, and other gems of their past are any indication, the 3rd party developer scene on the PSPhone is going to be open, cool, and awesome. /thick sarcasm
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post #235 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
They legally pulled it from PS3s via updates under their terms of agreement, which was also optional for everyone to download. No one at Sony force fed the update to your PS3 unless you sent it in for service.

Instructions in the user manual for how to use OtherOS is not an advertisement promoting it.
Actually, this is a form of bait and switch. GM tried that stund years ago, when they were selling Buicks and Oldsmobiles with Chevy engines. They lost bad, because they claimed that they could do it, because the engines were "equivalent" - but the courts found that GM was negligent in not informing the consumer about what they were purchasing, and that the consumer had the expectation that their Buick would come with a Buick engine, and their Cadillac with a Cadillac engine.

A company doesn't have to have entire ad campaigns, inclusion (or exclusion) in the user manual is entirely enough.If you send something in for service, the expectation is that you receive it returned in good order, entirely equivalent (or perhaps upgraded) in comparison to what you sent in. Like if your PS3 broke, so they put in a bunch of PS2 parts - that would be illegal. Just like if you have a PS3 and send it in for service - you expect it to be returned with the same capabilities it was sent in with. Like if you have one that can run PS2 games - you have reasonable expectation that once serviced, you will be able to run PS2 games. Otherwise it is bait and switch, and is fraud. Sony will lose big time on this one.
post #236 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Actually, this is a form of bait and switch. GM tried that stund years ago, when they were selling Buicks and Oldsmobiles with Chevy engines. They lost bad, because they claimed that they could do it, because the engines were "equivalent" - but the courts found that GM was negligent in not informing the consumer about what they were purchasing, and that the consumer had the expectation that their Buick would come with a Buick engine, and their Cadillac with a Cadillac engine.

A company doesn't have to have entire ad campaigns, inclusion (or exclusion) in the user manual is entirely enough.If you send something in for service, the expectation is that you receive it returned in good order, entirely equivalent (or perhaps upgraded) in comparison to what you sent in. Like if your PS3 broke, so they put in a bunch of PS2 parts - that would be illegal. Just like if you have a PS3 and send it in for service - you expect it to be returned with the same capabilities it was sent in with. Like if you have one that can run PS2 games - you have reasonable expectation that once serviced, you will be able to run PS2 games. Otherwise it is bait and switch, and is fraud. Sony will lose big time on this one.
PS3 does inform you of the changes. They alerted you that 3.21 would remove Other OS and if you wanted to keep it, you would have to stay offline. They also alert you that if you send your PS3 in for service, it will be updated.

http://us.playstation.com/support/warranties/ps3/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Service Policy
You understand and acknowledge that any time SCEA services your PS3™ system (either within the Warranty Period or under a separate service arrangement), it may become necessary for SCEA to provide certain services to your PS3™ system to ensure it is functioning properly in accordance with SCEA guidelines. Such services may include the installation of the latest software or firmware updates, or service or replacement of the PS3™ hard disk or the PS3™ system with a new or refurbished product."
This argument is old though.
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post #237 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
A company doesn't have to have entire ad campaigns, inclusion (or exclusion) in the user manual is entirely enough.
I concur with this. All of the debating about press releases vs. advertisements seems largely irrelevant to me. Whether something is a documented feature or not is going to depend largely, if not entirely, on the official "tech specs" sheet and/or the user manual. If the original PS3 manual included instructions on how to run Linux on it, or even a statement that it could be done and instructions could be found on Sony's web site somewhere, then I would say that Linux support was in fact a documented feature. But lacking that, I would say that it was not a documented feature.

So, who has an original 80GB model and the instruction manual to go look this up for us?
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post #238 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Otherwise it is bait and switch, and is fraud. Sony will lose big time on this one.
Hardly. It's all in the terms of agreement which is well within the law as it does not claim anything illegal. Sorry for the short response to your nicely orchestrated paragraphs, but it's really all that's needed to counter everything you just said.

Sony made it well known in the patch notes that the new firmware was going to remove the OtherOS feature. Those who upgraded did so at their own will; no one was forced to update. Just as the terms of agreement state that ANY PS3s sent in for service would be updated to the latest firmware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I concur with this. All of the debating about press releases vs. advertisements seems largely irrelevant to me. Whether something is a documented feature or not is going to depend largely, if not entirely, on the official "tech specs" sheet and/or the user manual. If the original PS3 manual included instructions on how to run Linux on it, or even a statement that it could be done and instructions could be found on Sony's web site somewhere, then I would say that Linux support was in fact a documented feature. But lacking that, I would say that it was not a documented feature.

So, who has an original 80GB model and the instruction manual to go look this up for us?
No need, I'm not denying that it was in the manual; it was. I disagree on it being an advertisement in any way though as it is just instructions on how to use something that your PS3 shipped with. The manual itself very likely has mention that any feature may be removed by firmware updates. Sony lived up to their "promise" of the PS3 including the OtherOS feature, then legitimately removed the OtherOS feature (they have the right to remove any feature they please under their LICENSED SOFTWARE'S terms of agreement) and fairly notified everyone beforehand. (They announced it in the firmware notes AND allowed the option to not download the update)

In other words: All PS3s sold within the timeframe that OtherOS was a feature of the PS3 DID include the OtherOS feature, making any "ad" of the OtherOS feature totally true. The USERS of those PS3s willingly downloaded an update that removed the feature.
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 2/17/11 at 6:54am
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post #239 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulcanDragon View Post
I concur with this. All of the debating about press releases vs. advertisements seems largely irrelevant to me. Whether something is a documented feature or not is going to depend largely, if not entirely, on the official "tech specs" sheet and/or the user manual. If the original PS3 manual included instructions on how to run Linux on it, or even a statement that it could be done and instructions could be found on Sony's web site somewhere, then I would say that Linux support was in fact a documented feature. But lacking that, I would say that it was not a documented feature.

So, who has an original 80GB model and the instruction manual to go look this up for us?
Just found my MGS 80GB Bundle packaging. It had never been opened until today lol. It's just a "Quick Reference" and "Safety and Support" booklet. The actual manual is online at http://manuals.playstation.net/document/ which page 5 of the "Safety and Support" booklet tells you.

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post #240 of 256
To make it easier:

http://manuals.playstation.net/docum...osinstall.html
http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html

First thing on the page, highlighted in red:
Quote:
The Open Platform feature is not available on CECH-2000 series or later models of the PS3™ system.

On PS3™ system models sold earlier than the CECH-2000 series models, the Open Platform feature will not be available if the system software is updated to version 3.21 or later.
I would like to see when that page was last updated. Is there any way to see that in the page's source code?
Edited by Stealth Pyros - 2/17/11 at 7:12am
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