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Is Bulldozer going to fail vs Sandy Bridge? - Page 45  

Poll Results: Is Bulldozer going to fail vs Sandy Bridge?

 
  • 32% (289)
    Yes, it will.-
  • 67% (606)
    No, I don't think so...
895 Total Votes  
post #441 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post
Look at the actual fabrication process ,they ve optimzed it to the bone.
Don t ask me how they do it ,they simply get more out of the same "nm" combining all kinds of teks.
Document yourself about the way AMD optimizes the silicon chips by using various tekniques.
Each company has its own way of optimizing its architecture, and it is incredibly hard to make such a blatant claim such as yours even by only basing it out of the architecture map.

At this point, no one knows which architecture will be better, and people are starting to be clearly annoyed by this level of uber-AMD fanboyism. Anyone who makes such claims as BD will be better than SB (or vice versa) is simply basing it off of nothing.

Quote:
Intel CPU prices are at least twice of what they should be.
Are you telling me a processor like the i5 2500k which sells for $220, and has a superior performance per core, overall performance, best overclockability than ANY AMD processor and the best price/performance on the market should be any lower than what it is?

Face it. In the mainstream field, Intel has the by far the best price/performance ratio. Also the AMD PII 1100T, a far inferior processor (when compared to the i5 2500k), is worth $10 more.
Edited by born2bwild - 4/21/11 at 5:17am
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post #442 of 616
^^^ Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by General_Jaja View Post
How? Do I sense fanboyism...?
If you can't already tell... 1. Look at his sig. 2. Look at his posts where he tries to blame faults in manufacturing and design on non-factors. Case in point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post
Look at the actual fabrication process ,they ve optimzed it to the bone.
Don t ask me how they do it ,they simply get more out of the same "nm" combining all kinds of teks.
Document yourself about the way AMD optimizes the silicon chips by using various tekniques.
I hear a sheep

1st of all. If anyone is going to take you seriously.

-Optimized
-Tech (Technologies)
-Techniques

2nd of all, you obviously have no idea what 'nm' means. It means nanometers which is a unit of measurement in the SI system for one billionth of a meter. Save it for the sheeple man. You're not convincing anyone here.
Edited by MediaRocker - 4/21/11 at 5:40am
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post #443 of 616
There's no chance that it's going to fail, it may not do quite as well as SB, but in no way is it going to fail.

It'll be great for competition if nothing else.
post #444 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Rabbit View Post
There's no chance that it's going to fail, it may not do quite as well as SB, but in no way is it going to fail.

It'll be great for competition if nothing else.
I agree. It will be nice to have AMD back in the game because I remember when the 64 and x2 came out it was dishing it out to Intel
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post #445 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dromihetes View Post
Look at the actual fabrication process ,they ve optimzed it to the bone.
Don t ask me how they do it ,they simply get more out of the same "nm" combining all kinds of teks.
Document yourself about the way AMD optimizes the silicon chips by using various tekniques.
This is the truth, AMD when it comes push to shove have had far superior idea's. AMD was the first to 86x 64 and the same for HyperTransport which predates Intels QPI.

From Phenom I to Phenom II which is a revision to say the least, this is entirely new. Nothing has been done quite like it.

I cannot wait to have a chance to see what they have done, in the real that is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by born2bwild

Are you telling me a processor like the i5 2500k which sells for $220, and has a superior performance per core, overall performance, best overclockability than ANY AMD processor and the best price/performance on the market should be any lower than what it is?
No but what you are forgetting is that AMD most likely forced Intel into such a market position. Before you where paying a huge premium for not a huge performance increase. Now that their process has matured Intel are now getting more good die's per wafer so this helps binning.
Also add to the fact that they have moved from 45nm to 32nm and what do you think that does to wafer real estate? I'll tell you what it does, it allows Intel to have more dies per wafer which makes them also cheaper.
Face it. In the mainstream field, Intel has the by far the best price/performance ratio. Also the AMD PII 1100T, a far inferior processor (when compared to the i5 2500k), is worth $10 more.[/quote]

for eg: 45nm I can fit 20 dies per wafer(A) (theoretically) now I have moved from 45nm to 32nm I can now fit for arguments sake 40 die per wafer.

Now the 45nm ones are the original i7. We will say I am binning for 965's. Ok of that 20 I get maybe 10 that meet the requirements of the 965.
5 of the other 20 only pass the requirements of a 920, now the rest are not useable.

965=10
920=5
waste of 5

But the problem is the waste, how are we going to recoup costs of fabbing to cover the waste? We will cover it in the initial cost of the other processors. Hence the higher price.

Now we look at the new 32 nm. Of all 30 we have 20 that meet the spec of the 2600k and 5 that meet 2500k and 5 that meet the needs of the 2100. Now we have more processors coming from the one wafer and due to the retooling and refining we have a lower rate of loss of processors which then equals larger profits and we can pass it onto the customer.

So that is why you see 2500K for the same price or less than the 1100T, plus it has 2 more cores. But to be honest at least you can overclock the 1100T over the 2500.

So in short.

smaller process = more dies per wafer
more dies per wafer = more profit
refinement = lower loss of product

smaller process = less power required to hit target speeds
lower power = less heat
less heat = higher overclock.
Edited by smash_mouth01 - 4/21/11 at 7:29am
post #446 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediarocker View Post

2nd of all, you obviously have no idea what 'nm' means. It means nanometers which is a unit of measurement in the si system for one billionth of a meter. Save it for the sheeple man. You're not convincing anyone here.
lol !

Obviously you don t know what "si" is for ,based on the same logics.

By the way ,i am a AMD fanboy ,so what s the problem ,i m missing the point.
Edited by Dromihetes - 4/21/11 at 9:35am
   
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post #447 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by smash_mouth01 View Post
This is the truth, AMD when it comes push to shove have had far superior idea's. AMD was the first to 86x 64 and the same for HyperTransport which predates Intels QPI.

From Phenom I to Phenom II which is a revision to say the least, this is entirely new. Nothing has been done quite like it.

I cannot wait to have a chance to see what they have done, in the real that is.




No but what you are forgetting is that AMD most likely forced Intel into such a market position. Before you where paying a huge premium for not a huge performance increase. Now that their process has matured Intel are now getting more good die's per wafer so this helps binning.
Also add to the fact that they have moved from 45nm to 32nm and what do you think that does to wafer real estate? I'll tell you what it does, it allows Intel to have more dies per wafer which makes them also cheaper.
Face it. In the mainstream field, Intel has the by far the best price/performance ratio. Also the AMD PII 1100T, a far inferior processor (when compared to the i5 2500k), is worth $10 more.
for eg: 45nm I can fit 20 dies per wafer(A) (theoretically) now I have moved from 45nm to 32nm I can now fit for arguments sake 40 die per wafer.

Now the 45nm ones are the original i7. We will say I am binning for 965's. Ok of that 20 I get maybe 10 that meet the requirements of the 965.
5 of the other 20 only pass the requirements of a 920, now the rest are not useable.

965=10
920=5
waste of 5

But the problem is the waste, how are we going to recoup costs of fabbing to cover the waste? We will cover it in the initial cost of the other processors. Hence the higher price.

Now we look at the new 32 nm. Of all 30 we have 20 that meet the spec of the 2600k and 5 that meet 2500k and 5 that meet the needs of the 2100. Now we have more processors coming from the one wafer and due to the retooling and refining we have a lower rate of loss of processors which then equals larger profits and we can pass it onto the customer.

So that is why you see 2500K for the same price or less than the 1100T, plus it has 2 more cores. But to be honest at least you can overclock the 1100T over the 2500.

So in short.

smaller process = more dies per wafer
more dies per wafer = more profit
refinement = lower loss of product

smaller process = less power required to hit target speeds
lower power = less heat
less heat = higher overclock.
Take a bow,its all there. Now AMD has gone design only and sold off its fabrication facilities so it can turn profit can only mean good things down the line. I am hoping this is a small step back to greatness.
Edited by B NEGATIVE - 4/21/11 at 9:48am
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post #448 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrpet View Post
AMD will always have the best bang for the buck. Intel will always own the high end market.
because SB is the main Steam comper to thew ivbridge coming soon LOL...

and the bulldozer seem to be the top of AM,D CPU's...
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post #449 of 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranerX3 View Post
because SB is the main Steam comper to thew ivbridge coming soon LOL...

and the bulldozer seem to be the top of AM,D CPU's...



...............what?



...............really?
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post #450 of 616
Tbh, as a Consumer I will buy whats best for me...

Intel/AMD/Nvidia/ATI Does it really matter? Buy on the Product itself NOT the brand..
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WD Caviar Green 1TB X2 (Boot/Storage), Seagate ... Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 500GB (Backup) 2X Seagate Barracuda's 7200.7 60GB (Scratch) 2X Super Ritemaster CD/DVD 
CoolingCoolingOSMonitor
Noctua NHC14 P/P 200mm Front, 200mm Top, 120mm Side, 120mm Exhau... Windows 7 Ultimate 64 Bit G2220HD 21.5" BenQ at 1920X1080 
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Razer Blackwidow Ultmate BF3 Ediiton OCZ ZX 850w PSU HAF912A w 120mm Side fan Razer DeathAdder 3.5G 
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Razer Goliathus Control Edition Corsair Vengeance 1300's/Logitech 530's Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Titanium PCI-e Lamptron FC8 Fan controller 
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