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About VRMs & Mosfets / Motherboard Safety with 125W+ TDP processors - Page 90

post #891 of 1100
Could be just it being old. Idk for sure what condition it was in, I bought it from an eBay toprated seller, and he said it was in good condition, but u never know...
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post #892 of 1100
Thread Starter 
It is possible that long term degradation caused higher possibility of failure. Like PSUs, the power output capability of VRMs can degrade in the same way. At some point in the future, it may not be capable of handling - say - your 4Ghz x6 at 1.6V anymore.
--
Just updated the article yet again. Most of the real informative stuff has been moved above the VRM failures list and the content/wording has been updated for greater accuracy. You may notice some sections have been easily split up, so you can more easily find the actual info you are looking for. I've been working at making this more of a reliable reference, similar to the AMD Motherboard Information list, rather than a read-once-and-go write up.
Edited by xd_1771 - 8/19/11 at 11:22pm
post #893 of 1100
Hello! In about 5 minuets, I might be a statistic, or not. Back-story:

I have had my MSI 890 FXA-GD70 for quite a while. Very early on I noticed the VRM/NB to run insanely hot. It has been actively cooled since about day 2. Just an 80MM Vantec thermoflow hot-glued to the Video card and blowing at it keeps things sane.

Great cooling important to me because, my year-round average ambient temperature is kept near 80. I built my rig to run stock without overheating at full load around 90.

The board has been rock-solid (with some bios-versions dramatically worse than others. The current one is great.) . It is usually run at stock speeds. Today, we shall see. The only fault I can find with it is that no one at MSI will give you a straight answer about the fan headers regarding max wattage. Consequently, I have blown all but one. Heat and noise is a big issue with this board. The new one should be better.

Here is the plan:
I have done this today: http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1963200
and it has been stable in the desktop (near idle) for a few hours.
I have also the new MSI 990FXA-GD80 on order. It is the same board (MS 7640 I believe, but a newer revision number.)
I have also cooled the ambient temperature to 72. Chip is idling at 31C core 34C. Thermalright trueblack cooler with a moderate fan. Thermal paste is aged ceramique and not fresh.

Now, Prime95. All indications point to spectacular failure almost immediately.
If I am not back in a half hour or so, I'll be camping out in the driveway waiting on UPS.

However, I have my doubts about this, So I am willing to put a (nearly) perfectly good board where my mouth is. My belief is that with adequate cooling, it should be fine.

In fact, I have more concern about the processor at these voltages and speeds and a heavy load than the board. I presume I will hit temperatures approaching 60C on the core within 30 seconds. If I get there and nothing blows up, I will discontinue the test. This assumes it is stable enough for prime.

Why? I would like to know If my confidence in this board was misplaced.
Here we go...

Updates here so as not to make a mess:
Well - that was easy. Instant reboot. Nothing blew. Ram needed adequate voltage- Duh. Also ticked up other voltages. Now at 1.525 or 1.53 depending on software.

Take 2 at 1.525/1.533 Ditto. Reboot.
Now at 1.5375 and 70.7 ambient. Pushing pretty hard here and nothing burnt up yet.

Take 3 at 1.5375 And again, Reboot. However, multicolor static on the screen and a blast of static from the speakers. I recognize that as a sign of too much voltage (with no stability benefit.)

Early conclusion: Crazy voltages and silly overclocks alone do not seem enough to cause a failure.
It must be stable enough to actually bear a full load for a period of time. Throwing up some silly numbers for benching does not seem to be of any harm.

I know from previous experience that this rig will do 4.0GHZ prime stable for at least a half hour at hotter ambient temperatures. (75 or so) because I did it last night.The numbers I think to be the NB/MOS temperatures never went above 48C. It held stable through 3 hours of video games after that.

Seems if you cool the hot stuff and only have 4 cores, the failure is neither violent nor immediate. In fact, I have seen nothing beyond standard overclocking instability for silly numbers and voltages.

I am satisfied that with 4 cores and good VRM cooling at normal room temperature, perhaps only extended periods of burn-in testing, or long term overclocks even have the possibility to cause trouble. I have no reason to believe short-term VRM related damage is even possible with proper cooling and 4 cores.
Edited by JohnBulb - 8/21/11 at 6:56pm
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post #894 of 1100
Run 3.9 or 4.0ghz and just work on your cpu-nb frequency. Should be more beneficial performance-wise.
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post #895 of 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catscratch;14671851 
Run 3.9 or 4.0ghz and just work on your cpu-nb frequency. Should be more beneficial performance-wise.

I was demonstrating a very specific point and have no interest in the CPU-NB.
Quote:
I built my rig to run stock without overheating at full load around 90.
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post #896 of 1100
My TMPIN2 seems to idle a little high on my GA-990FXA-UD5 compared to my other temps everything is at stock with no overclocking and yes my case has good ventilation room temp is cold etc.. not sure whats causing it

tempsr.jpg
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post #897 of 1100
Thread Starter 
Ensure your MOSFET heatsinks are well mounted and tightened. It may help to put both thumbs on it and push down for a couple of seconds. I did that after my MOSFET heatsink (held down by push pins) actually came loose from the MOSFETs during assembly. Idle at 20C, load at just 50C thumb.gif
post #898 of 1100
Maybe a little off topic but I borrowed one of those laser temp guns from work the other day. I actually think TMPIN2 is related to the NB. It was a few degrees celcius below what HW monitor showed (HWM showed 48C at idle, temp reader 42C, measured on the heatsink, of course). And under stress it rose accordingly.
When I had the 770TA-UD3 Gigabyte told me that TMPIN2 is for the 770 chipset.. I believe (but not entirely sure) that TMPIN0 is for the MOSFET (which also was a few degrees lower (31C HWM/27C TR) when using the temp reader). No difference there under load though.. confused.gif Even when you use your fingers, you'll notice that the MOSFET heatsink is only warm.. NB is a lot hotter.

Might have to buy one of those laser temp guns to further investigate. smile.gif I'll have to pop out the heatsinks next time and run the system without them for a while.

I hope I made some sense in this post. It's getting late.. Just wanted to let you know what I discovered..
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post #899 of 1100
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^ Don't remove that Northbridge heatsink! Because newer northbridge chips are smaller due to smaller nodes, there is less area to spread the heat. That is why heatsinks have always been required on modern northbridges and southbridges, whereas on older motherboards many northbridge and southbridge chips could go fine without heatsinks (higher process node means more area to spread heat). You will KILL the 990FX northbridge the moment it is turned on without a heatsink.

Pointing at the heatsinks is in no way an accurate method of testing. Northbridge/chipset heatsink should not raise much if at all during load because all it does on the 990X/990FX is supply the northbridge/chipset lanes. You might want to ensure the VRM and northbridge heatsinks are both tight and experiment with pointing the laser at different sections of the heatsink.
post #900 of 1100
I won't remove the NB heatsink, I promise. But I did however add two plastic rings (for testing only) on the 'backside' of the VRM heatsink yesterday to make it sit tighter. The weird thing is that TMPIN0 dropped 2C then. But maybe it is just a coincidence. I am wondering if stronger springs would be a good or bad idea for making it sit even more tighter. Would it hurt anything? Might do the same on the NB if it is reasonably safe.

I know that point & shot with a laser gun is not accurate at all but I wanted to know what temps I have inside the case. Tried on different parts of the heatsinks. 3 degree difference at most.

Well, enough of my rambling for today. smile.gif
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