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[IGN] Sony Begins PS3 Bans - Page 6

post #51 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
You rather they ban you without warning, or warn you and give you a chance? This is childish? And rapping trash to a company isn't? You think a hacker will create new home brew that is , what you essentially said, better than PSN? Do you realize PSN is a network, that doesn't "suck a big one" (childish), it isn't something these "hackers" can just throw together.
They just should be allowed to ban people that simply modded their system. I can see a ban if the mod was used to cheat in games - that would go against the rules. But this was nothing more than a simple mod that jailbreaks a machine. I do not believe that machines should be jailed to begin with. If Sony wants to not have users do something - they shouldn't compile it in. Same with the various encryption schemes - if their scheme is so lame and weak that people like GeoHot can easily stomp all over it - it ain't encryption. And Sony pretending that it is encryption is nothing short of fraud.

Sending out these threats is corporate childishness - since nothing of this has anything to do with cheating, but rather, Sony claiming that their "contract" precludes fair use of the equipment that was purchased.

Lots of networks and web sites are operated by hobbyists, and are entirely successful and healthy endeavours. My point is that if Sony keeps shoving their users around - they will end up being the next Evil Empire, following in the footsteps of the Microsoft of a decade ago, and the current front runner, Apple, with their toxic bloatware and their shoving around "competitors". I can entirely see people like GeoHot going out and setting up their own PSN-like network, perhaps getting the TPB people to run it - because it will end up being popular and sweet.

In a nation where there is free speech and free opinion, a country that attempts to export those very things to the rest of the world, it is unacceptable that corporate bogeymen can be allowed free reign to impose their forms of terror and tyrrany upon those who did things, like post messages in a blog, or take pictures of a modded machine. If we allow Sony and the other fat corporate goons to shove us around like that - OCN will be the next victim, because all of those things that were done on a small scale on a PS3 - are done by a myriad of people here on OCN. All kinds of mods and alternations, all of which some lawyer could deem "dangerous" and "against the contracts you agreed to".

It is also true that at least some PS3s were sold because of the ability to run OtherOS, something part and parcel of the contracted agreement for those people to purchase the machine in the first place. Just like a car. If you take your Hemi powered Mopar to the shop for an oil change - you expect it to be returned with the Hemi - not to have the engine stripped out and replaced with a 4 cylinder because Chrysler "decided to remove that feature" because you modded the seats or painted pin stripes on the car.
post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyladouche View Post
who say "it's my hardware, I should be able to do what I want with it..." nonsense--yes, go ahead, you can do whatever you want with your purchased hardware--you just don't get to use their services.
I agree with this 100%. PlayStation isn't just offering a piece of hardware for you to use but also software, updated software and fixes, a network for games/movies/media. Installing Linux is one thing, like someone said before, they used it for a HTPC or something along those lines. If that is someones intention then I don't see them worrying about "getting banned from PSN" because it looks like they already took themselves out of that service and have other uses for their PS3. The majority is not this way though and we can lie through our teeth about it, whether you do it, you know someone who does it, or you don't care if someone does it, them getting banned from PSN is a good solution I think. IMO it is PlayStation saying "you went against our ToS and we have consequences for your actions, respect us enough that we are giving you a warning to change or otherwise suffer TEH BANHAMMER".

Give users a way for a Linux install, take away options for anything else and if those options are compromised then PS should take action but don't keep Linux off if there is a way of having that cake and eating it, too.

Edit: I would quote the post above me just for the fact of how much you can rip it apart but I don't want a super long post since I already have one right now. But just as one point...didn't it take 4+ years to finally get the PS3 opened up, soooo EvanPitts..."if their scheme is so lame and weak that people like GeoHot can easily stomp all over it - it ain't encryption." is it so weak that you could have found the key too? Hmm I believe one person hacked it, (idk who this guy really is cause I don't follow hacking/homebrew/jailbreaking stuff) but I assume GeoHot hacks for a living so for someone that does this crap on any new tech he can, and it took him 4+ years to do, then how "lame and weak" is that encryption?
Edited by DayzaStarr - 2/18/11 at 1:22pm
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post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by themagicalflyingpotato View Post
And as for the OtherOS feature, why not just buy a real cheap PC if you want to run linux ?
Sure - they can, but I think their point was to turn the PS3 into a Linux based HTPC kind of device, but with Blu-Ray. It's nothing different from any other mod. One could say why bother with overclocking a processor when you can just go out and buy another machine and network it. But doing things the way some engineer intended simply goes against the hackish kultur. Just like if you want a fast car. You can either spend a was and buy a Porsche - but it is so much cooler to wedge some giant engine into some sleeper-mobile for the shock factor.
post #54 of 98
Comment extracted from the article posted above about Unbanning:

Quote:
I love how everyone in these comments are complaining about the “hackersâ€, when in fact this is all Sony’s fault.

Sony shipped the PS3 with OtherOS, which allowed users to run Linux on their PS3. When Sony removed OtherOS, the Linux users went to work finding a way to install Linux (as Linux users do). When they cracked the PS3′s encryption and keys, they only did it so they could return the Linux functionality to the PS3. However, this also allowed “pirates†and “hackers†to do many other things.

If Sony never removed OtherOS, the PS3′s security would have never been compromised, and this whole mess could have been avoided. The so-called “hackers†really aren’t as technical as you think they are. They most likely have little understanding of the PS3′s actual inner workings. They are just using the methods provided by the Linux users that Sony pissed off.
Sony fragged themselves! I entirely agree with the comment. If Sony had just left OtherOS, the hackers wouldn't have been forced to crack the entire system. Now it is going to be a big, costly showdown that Sony will lose in so many ways.
post #55 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
They just should be allowed to ban people that simply modded their system. I can see a ban if the mod was used to cheat in games - that would go against the rules. But this was nothing more than a simple mod that jailbreaks a machine. I do not believe that machines should be jailed to begin with. If Sony wants to not have users do something - they shouldn't compile it in. Same with the various encryption schemes - if their scheme is so lame and weak that people like GeoHot can easily stomp all over it - it ain't encryption. And Sony pretending that it is encryption is nothing short of fraud.

Sending out these threats is corporate childishness - since nothing of this has anything to do with cheating, but rather, Sony claiming that their "contract" precludes fair use of the equipment that was purchased.

Lots of networks and web sites are operated by hobbyists, and are entirely successful and healthy endeavours. My point is that if Sony keeps shoving their users around - they will end up being the next Evil Empire, following in the footsteps of the Microsoft of a decade ago, and the current front runner, Apple, with their toxic bloatware and their shoving around "competitors". I can entirely see people like GeoHot going out and setting up their own PSN-like network, perhaps getting the TPB people to run it - because it will end up being popular and sweet.

In a nation where there is free speech and free opinion, a country that attempts to export those very things to the rest of the world, it is unacceptable that corporate bogeymen can be allowed free reign to impose their forms of terror and tyrrany upon those who did things, like post messages in a blog, or take pictures of a modded machine. If we allow Sony and the other fat corporate goons to shove us around like that - OCN will be the next victim, because all of those things that were done on a small scale on a PS3 - are done by a myriad of people here on OCN. All kinds of mods and alternations, all of which some lawyer could deem "dangerous" and "against the contracts you agreed to".

It is also true that at least some PS3s were sold because of the ability to run OtherOS, something part and parcel of the contracted agreement for those people to purchase the machine in the first place. Just like a car. If you take your Hemi powered Mopar to the shop for an oil change - you expect it to be returned with the Hemi - not to have the engine stripped out and replaced with a 4 cylinder because Chrysler "decided to remove that feature" because you modded the seats or painted pin stripes on the car.
Dude, take a step back and think to yourself, what console manufacturer hasn't tried to ban users with modded consoles? When you answer that question, everything will make much more sense.

This isn't something new and Sony isn't setting some sort of trend. This is how things have worked in the internet age of consoles.

Again, go ahead and mod your system, just don't expect to play online.
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post #56 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Snip
Ok, let me give you a little clarity on your misconception here. this wasn't just a "simple little mod" to "jailbreak" the console. This was an extremely invasive security exploit performed by reverse engineering the OS, allowing not just Linux, but any other software to be installed as well, this includes pirated games, game hacks, etc.

And, more to the point, there is NO fair use of this product. You agree to the license, terms and conditions of the OS. Do what you want with the hardware, you cannot touch the software. End of story.

Sony did what they had to do to protect millions of honest customers from those who would misuse and abuse the system.

So please, go read up on wha tthis is all about before posting your tirades, cos you really have no idea what you're talking about.
post #57 of 98
You break the EULA, you don't get to use their services. Simple as that
     
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post #58 of 98
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post #59 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Comment extracted from the article posted above about Unbanning:



Sony fragged themselves! I entirely agree with the comment. If Sony had just left OtherOS, the hackers wouldn't have been forced to crack the entire system. Now it is going to be a big, costly showdown that Sony will lose in so many ways.
That part of the article is horribly incorrect. OtherOS was removed as the first preventative measure to cut back on hacking and piracy. Geohot hacked an exploit using OtherOS to directly access Level 2 instructions on the Cell Processor. This is the only reason they removed access as at the time was the only way pirates and hackers could do what they do.

You want to blame someone, blame your Geohot. We, the paying consumer, have to suffer now, with some loss of features and hacking, because of Geohot and others. What they did was selfish, and now we all have to pay in some form or another.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/18/11 at 3:09pm
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post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
They just should be allowed to ban people that simply modded their system. I can see a ban if the mod was used to cheat in games - that would go against the rules.
People are able to use that crack to cheat, and there are multiple news articles related to it. It is already a major problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
But this was nothing more than a simple mod that jailbreaks a machine.
No, no it wasn't. This is beyond "simple". They can run any unauthorized code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
I do not believe that machines should be jailed to begin with.
Then why defend the crack?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
If Sony wants to not have users do something - they shouldn't compile it in.
They want features for the users to use and enjoy. They were completely willing to allow everyone to use the OtherOS. But, people like Geo ruined it, and decided to exploit the privilege of having the feature. That privilege had to be revoked because they weren't following the agreed terms with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Same with the various encryption schemes - if their scheme is so lame and weak that people like GeoHot can easily stomp all over it - it ain't encryption. And Sony pretending that it is encryption is nothing short of fraud.
They had a stupid mistake in their code, but their content was encrypted. How is it fraud? Do you even know what fraud means? I highly doubt you do, you want to throw that word around a lot. Not to mention, it took what... 5 years for them to crack it? You can, and they can, claim they didn't start trying to crack the system until OtherOS was removed, but that isn't true. OtherOS was removed because people were using it to crack the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Sending out these threats is corporate childishness - since nothing of this has anything to do with cheating, but rather, Sony claiming that their "contract" precludes fair use of the equipment that was purchased.
Once again, I don't think you understand a definition. Do you know what "childish" means? Not only is this the best and more reasonable reaction, but it is actually (in your terms) corporate maturity. They are warning all users who have the hack, and giving them the chance to undo it to not be banned. They could just straight out ban the abusers and get it over with, I think they are being too lenient. Not to mention, this crack has and currently is being used to cheat. Yes, read that again, it is being use to cheat in games and mod trophies. Not to mention, contracts and "terms of services" are the very things that keep corporations running as they should. It is completely legitimate and is not childish for them to be enforcing the contract which all users agreed to. You are being childish by thinking you are exempt from the contract because you think you own the software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Lots of networks and web sites are operated by hobbyists, and are entirely successful and healthy endeavours. My point is that if Sony keeps shoving their users around - they will end up being the next Evil Empire, following in the footsteps of the Microsoft of a decade ago, and the current front runner, Apple, with their toxic bloatware and their shoving around "competitors". I can entirely see people like GeoHot going out and setting up their own PSN-like network, perhaps getting the TPB people to run it - because it will end up being popular and sweet.
PSN is -massive-, there is no way these hobbyist hackers could possibly create something so massive and keep it up. Not only do they lack the content available on the network, but there is no way they could possibly keep up with the costs of doing it. You seem to lack the knowledge of what PSN actually offers. I'll compare it to LIVE, since almost everyone has an idea of how large LIVE is. Despite popular belief, PSN has more than LIVE, and also consist of way more people - paid and unpaid. It offers the same dependable experience with multiplayer, and it is constantly growing. Not to mention, it has stuck to being free. Do you think any hobbyist could possibly recreate something better than LIVE, offer more content, keep it free, and keep it smooth? Please, gather your *chan possy and try it. I dare you. Only competitor near it would be Steam, and even they are joining forces with PSN.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
In a nation where there is free speech and free opinion, a country that attempts to export those very things to the rest of the world, it is unacceptable that corporate bogeymen can be allowed free reign to impose their forms of terror and tyrrany upon those who did things, like post messages in a blog, or take pictures of a modded machine. If we allow Sony and the other fat corporate goons to shove us around like that - OCN will be the next victim, because all of those things that were done on a small scale on a PS3 - are done by a myriad of people here on OCN.
Woah, woah! Step back, take off your foil hat and just listen to yourself. Ok, lets clarify. In America, you don't really have any of those freedoms like you think you do. If you agree to terms, you are legally bound to them. Ever heard of a non-disclosure agreement? If you work on a project with a company and sign a Non-disclosure Agreement, then you give up your freedom of speech about that project. If you tell anyone about that project outside of that agreed team, you will be prosecuted for it. So yes, you do have freedom of speech, and freedom of opinion. But, if you exercise those freedoms while violating a contract, the people you made the agreement to have the freedom to prosecute you for violating their terms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
All kinds of mods and alternations, all of which some lawyer could deem "dangerous" and "against the contracts you agreed to".
Once again, no matter how stupid, small, big, large, what ever... an agreement is an agreement. You make one, you better hold your end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It is also true that at least some PS3s were sold because of the ability to run OtherOS, something part and parcel of the contracted agreement for those people to purchase the machine in the first place. Just like a car. If you take your Hemi powered Mopar to the shop for an oil change - you expect it to be returned with the Hemi - not to have the engine stripped out and replaced with a 4 cylinder because Chrysler "decided to remove that feature" because you modded the seats or painted pin stripes on the car.
Yes! Another bad example joins the party! If you sign an agreement with the people servicing your car that says something like: "By servicing this vehicle, you agree that: (1) If the vehicle is in any way altered or mismatched from any or all current factory conditions, then we reserve the right to remove your current engine and replace it with any other available replacement."
Then yes, you can expect that your engine has been replaced because it doesn't match current factory settings. If you read the terms of service for repairs/services of the PS3, it specifically says they will update the firmware in order to ensure the proper repairs have been made. Which is completely reasonable considering their updates fix bugs and other system files that could be causing the errors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
Sony fragged themselves! I entirely agree with the comment. If Sony had just left OtherOS, the hackers wouldn't have been forced to crack the entire system. Now it is going to be a big, costly showdown that Sony will lose in so many ways.
You realize it isn't going to cost them as much as you think. Pocket change, is what it will be. Not to mention, that is IF they lose. Which, I highly doubt they will considering how blatantly obvious it is as to how guilty Geo is for violating the terms and DMCA.


Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
Ok, let me give you a little clarity on your misconception here. this wasn't just a "simple little mod" to "jailbreak" the console. This was an extremely invasive security exploit performed by reverse engineering the OS, allowing not just Linux, but any other software to be installed as well, this includes pirated games, game hacks, etc.

And, more to the point, there is NO fair use of this product. You agree to the license, terms and conditions of the OS. Do what you want with the hardware, you cannot touch the software. End of story.

Sony did what they had to do to protect millions of honest customers from those who would misuse and abuse the system.

So please, go read up on wha tthis is all about before posting your tirades, cos you really have no idea what you're talking about.

Evan, read XNine's post as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain View Post
That part of the article is horribly incorrect. OtherOS was removed as the first preventative measure to cut back on hacking and piracy. Geohot hacked an exploit using OtherOS to directly access Level 2 instructions on the Cell Processor. This is the only reason they removed access as at the time was the only way pirates and hackers could do what they do.

You want to blame someone, blame your Geohot. We, the paying consumer, have to suffer now, with some loss of features and hacking, because of Geohot and others. What they did was selfish, and now we all have to pay in some form or another.
Evan, also read this.
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