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Why single rail is NOT better than multi rail - Page 14  

post #131 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by runeazn View Post
yerah i jsut found how many and i did this
OVP / OCP / OPP / SCP / UVP / OTP
^^^^ rofl
http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=5218
somebody mind to tell me what for protections those are?
OCP = Over Current Protection
OPP = Over Power Protection
OTP = Over Temp Protection
UVP = Under Voltage Protection
SCP = Short Circuit Protection
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post #132 of 172
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannedog View Post
I know you feel that this is the case (that the lack of the feature has been considered a benefit), but, I don't think any common perception has ever been that single rail is safer or a benefit from the standpoint of safety. Sure, there's FUD out there, just like there is on any topic. But, it's not the common perception.

If people consider single rail to be a benefit over multi-rail, they are looking at it from an overall perspective, not from a "safety" one.
You obviously weren't here when I joined. Or even gone out and spoken to the typical enthusiast, and more than nine out of ten gamers. The vast majority of computer people don't know what OCP is, and think that a rail is a metal bar or a transformer inside the power supply. This post educates them, and clarifies the situation for those who have heard about OCP but don't quite understand it.
post #133 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
I'm going to add an addendum to my original post.

Just because your PSU is single rail, doesn't mean that it's a bad power supply or that it's going to spontaneously combust. It just means that it's lacking a protection set (or that set is poorly implemented). Multi-rail OCP will save your butt in a couple of 1/10,000 occurrences. The vast majority of people will never be in a situation where they'll really need OCP. But those who do get in that situation, really need it.

The point of this is not to make you immediately abandon your single rail PSUs. You're in all likelihood fine. The point is to get the lack of a feature to stop being considered a benefit.
I was just going to ask about this. We see here an obvious benefit that multi-rail PSU's have over single rails, but I wonder at this point why anybody would go single rail. There must be some kind of benefit from having a single over a multi, maybe an article/thread on the pros/cons of having a single/multi-rail PSU would help out people a lot more in deciding what kind of PSU they should invest in.
 
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post #134 of 172
Thread Starter 
Oh, and for a look at the type of people who'd benefit from this post, head over to TechSupportForum. I posted my article there and was instantly banned for "trolling". Because the hardware team managers believe that single rail is INFINITELY better than multi and that they are incapable of being wrong.
post #135 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Tell that to the Silverstone Strider 1500w which powers GTX 480 Quad-SLI setups and it's 12v rails have OCP limits of 20A.
First of all, according to this, http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=791&page=2, the strider provides 25 A on each of the rails, not 20 A.

Second of all, the thing has SEVEN 12 V rails. With that many, you can easily put other components that don't use the gpu onto different rails.

Thirdly, the thing costs FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS. Sure, I'd love to have that PSU, but, if you're referencing it, you're missing my point completely.
post #136 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by hannedog View Post
Thirdly, the thing costs FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS. Sure, I'd love to have that PSU, but, if you're referencing it, you're missing my point completely.
If you want a cheaper unit, I can deliver that as well:
Rosewill Xtreme Series 750w.

You can read the review here.
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post #137 of 172
Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez, guys. Stop the drama. Are multi-rail psu's safer? Sure thing. But its like saying that it is safer to stay in your house rather than take a plane...how likely is a plane crash?
This is exactly the same: if something has to go wrong, damage will be higher with a single-rail unit, you can be sure about that, but it doesn't mean your single-rail psu will burn your computer, nor you have to lower your overclocks.

I don't think Phae created this post with other thought than to point out that the single-rail thingy is not a feature at all, just some BS marketing tactic. So, dont bother selling your psu for nothing...but next time you are into the market for a psu, try to go deeper to see what is really a "feature" and what is deffinitely not.

That said, I must add something: a multi-rail power supply is as good as a single-rail if its designed properly. If you have like half-dozen 12V rails with an amperage of 18-20A, you will have more than enough power for up to two cards (2 railes per card, so you can overclock as much as you want, and the other two rails split between cpu, motherboard and peripherals).
But if you have like 2 rails then your psu is a POS because you won't be able to use them fully, no matter how hard you try.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
The protection that SHOULD have engaged was the over current protection (OCP). But it didn't. Why? Because his PSU (Ultra X4 1600W) is a single rail power supply.

Over current measures the amount of electrical current traveling through a set of wires on a power supply. You have a different OCP circuit for each voltage supplied by the power supply; +12V, +5V, +3.3V, etc. The +12V, however, is a little special because it usually delivers about five times as much power as any other rail.

A single rail power supply either has ONE over current protection circuit monitoring all +12V wires leaving the PSU, or else NO (ZIP NADA NONE) OCP for the +12V rail at all. A multi rail power supply naturally has MULTIPLE over current protection circuits, each one monitoring a different set of cables leaving the PSU.
So, why would a psu designer/builder not to place an OCP even in a single-rail psu? Just to save a few pennies doesn't seem such a good idea to me, specially when multi-rail units have a hell more OCP's (one per rail...or they should) and are not that much expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yati View Post
I have a question for Phaedrus, why is that Silverstone/Enhance and Corsair with some units from Seasonic prodominantly single rail units.

Surely Seasonic and Enhance with their team of electrical engineers, R&D, and product managers understand electrical current protection better than most.

Is the short circuit occurence so minimal that advantages between multi and single rails protection negligble at best?
How often do you see burnt computers due to this? errrmmmmmm....barely ever? Failure rate due to this is minimal...and this is why those companies jump on single-rail BS because the market wants it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MangoMan View Post
I have a dual rail 650W PSU, more stable this way. I have my hard drive separate from my video cards and MoBo.
More stable? Tell me how you will be able to put 2 VGAs on it...you can't. Provided both rails are as big, and cpu-mobo is on one of them, you will be quite pressed to run 2 gpu's on just a 25A rail....


Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtrance View Post
And also, if single rail power supplies were that bad, manufacturers would not even make them. So people that are "worried" about their single rails, you are fine.
Manufacturers produce those power supplies because this is what the market demands. Yeah, look around you: single-rail is sold as a feature, people believe this stupid marketing tactics and thus chooses its psu based on that.

Then, all the other brands have to follow in order not to lose revenue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Markeh View Post
I did just check the Be Quiet website, and it does say dual-rail. Which I assume is slightly better. I'm not OCing so hopefully we shouldn't have a problem.
Dual rail for ~500w? It must be a POS psu then, no way you will utilize it fully. You need no less than 3 rails to be able to split power properly...and the more you have, the better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tator Tot View Post
Yes it's true.

No one checks documentation most of the time. They also do not need to be certified to say that.

Some older Corsair units were labeled as having multiple 12v rails, but they only had a single 12v rail. This was Seasonic's fault, not Corsairs's. Seasonic told Corsair that the units had multiple 12v rails when they did not.
Mmmmm. A few Corsair reps stated somewhere that It didn't happen exactly like did: they planned to have'em multi-rail'd because the standard was thought to include it but, as they could choose to put a single-rail or not, they decided not to. Boxes weren't changed because they were already done...


Quote:
Originally Posted by hannedog View Post
LOL, 18-20A is not "more than enough" for "any" SLI setup. You're funny, man.
It is, if you don't have BOTH pci-e connectors from that specific rail.
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post #138 of 172
Guess the moral of the story is don't get OCD about OCP!
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post #139 of 172
So single 12V rail PSU's are fine, unless you are being careless with it. You really shouldn't be trying to scare people with all of these pictures and technical terms. Your single 12V rail PSU isn't going to make your computer catch on fire.
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post #140 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus2129 View Post
You obviously weren't here when I joined. Or even gone out and spoken to the typical enthusiast, and more than nine out of ten gamers. The vast majority of computer people don't know what OCP is, and think that a rail is a metal bar or a transformer inside the power supply. This post educates them, and clarifies the situation for those who have heard about OCP but don't quite understand it.
Ah, but you're confusing the realities here. Just because the vast majority don't know what "OCP", the fact of the matter is, if you asked them, which do you think is safer, single rail or multi-rail, unless they're complete buffoons (so, I am talking about enthusiasts here), they all know that multi-rail has always been more safe than single rail.

Sure, you're educating them about OCP, but, your article was written with bias, which is having the (unintended?) affect of causing many people reading this thread to not see any practical advantage of a single rail psu. Such as the poster right below you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRockMonsi View Post
I was just going to ask about this. We see here an obvious benefit that multi-rail PSU's have over single rails, but I wonder at this point why anybody would go single rail.
The fact of the matter is, single rail is preferred by gamers over multi-rail, for a variety of reasons,
1) to get a decent performance out of each, single-rail is CHEAPER
2) except for psus with massive amounts of amperage on a rail, who really cares about decreasing your chance of failure from 0.0001% to 0.00001%? Most gamers upgrade often enough so that they don't even run into failures caused by time-degredation.
3) For most psus which provide mid-range performance, multi-rail simply doesn't provide enough amperage on at least one of the rails. Unless you go very high-end for multi-rail, you're likely going to be choked somewhere.
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