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[Mushkin/OCC] Mushkin Not Moving to 25nm - Page 5

post #41 of 65
I'm just glad that I will continue to have options. This probably means that the performance of the SATA 3 based drives will exceed that of competitors once Mushkin has their parts out. I may just become their SSD customer as well. Definitely only place to buy DRAM.
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post #42 of 65
On the other hand, OCZ has the Vertex 3 coming out soon, which HAS to be on 25nm (how could they be making it on 34nm?), yet has stellar performance. Performance can be had with 25nm, just not with the older controllers.
post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
On the other hand, OCZ has the Vertex 3 coming out soon, which HAS to be on 25nm (how could they be making it on 34nm?), yet has stellar performance. Performance can be had with 25nm, just not with the older controllers.
Yes but the reduced life is enough to make me steer clear of it. How much extra nand would be needed to compensate for the low life count?
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post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtSpike View Post
On the other hand, OCZ has the Vertex 3 coming out soon, which HAS to be on 25nm (how could they be making it on 34nm?), yet has stellar performance. Performance can be had with 25nm, just not with the older controllers.
It's not that simple. They have done a lot of optimizations on Vertex 3 to make it perform as it does. However, performance gains are only realized once you are on SATA-3. Even OCZ testers have stated that there is really not much point to upgrading from 2-series drives if you are running SATA-2.

The extra over-provisioning to compensate for the lower PE cycles is quite a bit too. A marketed 120GB drive right now formats to just 107GB. Right off the bat you lose 13GB.
Edited by dejanh - 2/25/11 at 10:18am
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post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejanh View Post
It's not that simple. They have done a lot of optimizations on Vertex 3 to make it perform as it does. However, performance gains are only realized once you are on SATA-3. Even OCZ testers have stated that there is really not much point to upgrading from 2-series drives if you are running SATA-2.

The extra over-provisioning to compensate for the lower PE cycles is quite a bit too. A marketed 120GB drive right now formats to just 107GB. Right off the bat you lose 13GB.
Good point. Without SATA3, the newer drive isn't of much use. I suppose my main point was, the performance can be had with 25nm, it's just a matter of time before we get there. Any 25nm drives you can currently buy have terrible performance compared to the better 34nm drives, but that will be changing down the road.

Also, while overprovisioning does take away from usable drive space, the space should be cheaper in the end from the cheaper NAND. In other words, you may only get 107GB on a 120GB drive, but the savings from using 25nm will likely mean price drops to where that 120GB drive costs the same as a 90GB 34nm drive would have.

I'm just saying, there is hope for 25nm in the future. It sucks right now, but down the road, it'll be better than anything we have available in 34nm right now.
Edited by SgtSpike - 2/25/11 at 11:24am
post #46 of 65
I remember reading another article and the reason for the decrease in speed and endurance is that the shrink to 25nm causes the electrical circuit to have more difficulty holding electrical charges. In turn, complex error checking and correcting must be put into place. That causes performance to take a hit since error checking generally does that, and endurance because there will be more reads/writes to correct for errors most likely.
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post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonSlice View Post
I remember reading another article and the reason for the decrease in speed and endurance is that the shrink to 25nm causes the electrical circuit to have more difficulty holding electrical charges. In turn, complex error checking and correcting must be put into place. That causes performance to take a hit since error checking generally does that, and endurance because there will be more reads/writes to correct for errors most likely.
Not sure about the electrical part but the error checking part is correct. That's another one of few reasons why there's more formatted space on a 34nm drive than there is on a 25nm drive.


OT: They're going end up being in a high price point while everyone else is MUCH cheaper. That's going to bite them in the butt because that's what attracts customers more. There's many more uninformed customers that will not care about the difference between a 34 and a 25 than there are of those who will watch for those kinds of things.
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post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krusher33 View Post
Not sure about the electrical part but the error checking part is correct. That's another one of few reasons why there's more formatted space on a 34nm drive than there is on a 25nm drive.


OT: They're going end up being in a high price point while everyone else is MUCH cheaper. That's going to bite them in the butt because that's what attracts customers more. There's many more uninformed customers that will not care about the difference between a 34 and a 25 than there are of those who will watch for those kinds of things.
I disagree. I think the whole issue has gotten enough news coverage from the OCZ debacle that there will be a significant number of consumers looking for 34nm drives. Certainly not the majority of people who buy an SSD, but enough that it will keep Mushkin plenty busy with supplying them.

Newegg has been going in and out of stock of the Mushkin drives the past few days. There's a reason that they keep running out...
post #49 of 65
I'm going to sound like a Mushkin hater so let me first say that I've always admired the quality of Mushkin's product. Problem I run into is that I can never afford the quality. I have to settle for what I can afford. Maybe someday when my income is more I'll buy their products.

But to me, they're going in and out of stock a lot because they're limiting how many to distribute to each of the retailers. The NAND makers are not making anymore 34nm so they have to limit how many to send to each retailer. That way the can maintain their statement of "not moving to 25nm" and uphold their quality image for as long as possible.

I like Mushkin and Mushkin-Nick is my favorite dude. I just can't afford their good stuff.
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post #50 of 65
The 60GB Mushkin Callisto Deluxe drive is the same price as the Vertex 2 you bought... so your argument is invalid.

Oh, actually, it looks like Mushkin's 60GB is up $5 to $135 now, the V2 is only $130. So I guess if you can't afford that extra $5...
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