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[PS3Crunch] Geohot is Asking for Your Donation - Page 22

post #211 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Ehhh... ok, I'll be brief:

I don't "think" the OtherOS removal was legal, it is, and it is pretty much no contest. It was never an advertised feature and Sony has every right to remove features that harbor security holes. Everyone who lost OtherOS gave consent to have it removed. There's virtually no argument that can evade that. Show me otherwise, I hope you're one of the few that can.
Err lol and I just had an epiphany in the shower. We are both "wrong", or at least all of us. At this point it's not about whether or not it's legal it's about whether or not the court has enough evidence to prove that Sony indeed broke the law with that action. Basically it's about proving that the action the law states is the same action that sony willingly did.

At this point sony didn't do anything illegal but neither was their action considered legal (enough) so as to get the case dismissed. Basically there is enough evidence to support the idea that sony has broken the law, in which case the court has decided to try them as if they did.

Now, you are technically "innocent" till proven guilty here, but that's not entirely the case. I'm not going to get into the politics of our court system, but saying they are innocent or guilty is both wrong. We don't know if they are innocent or guilty. That's a better way to look on it, it's all opinion at this point.
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post #212 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by ForumViewer View Post
But I wouldn't donate a dime to him regardless of what it was about. He's as childish as it gets. No way would I donate my hard earned money to someone like him. That and I believe in something called personal responsibility, which I know is a very difficult concept for the younger crowd to grasp these days.

Edit- And just for the record, I in no way, shape or forum support Sony in their legal adventures.
Quoted For Truth.

Also: Am I the only one who saw this coming?

As soon as I saw that key hit every web site and twitter, I anticipated that he would be asking for donations for legal help. While I despise the way Sony has been acting and I condone what the kid was doing, I pretty much lost all respect for him when I saw his rap-attack against Sony. After releasing the code he should have just disappeared into anonymity. Instead he wanted to bask and gloat in the spotlight. He is getting what he deserves.
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post #213 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
Here's one. There are roughly a hundred others on OCN alone but don't expect me to go searching through the other threads.

I'm not denying it: I would completely switch sides if Sony releases an update that "removes GPU acceleration" or "disables the Cell processor" or "disables Blu-Ray functionality" but that's not the case at hand. In THIS case, I am supporting Sony. People are failing to understand that the OtherOS feature is a massive SECURITY HOLE, it's not just Sony being a big meany removing OtherOS just because they want to. (I'd hope that) there is no security hole in the Blu-Ray functionality or processor. If there was a serious problem within hardware, Sony would be forced to do a massive recall, don't you think? In this case, it is all software related which is completely different.
I understand that. But from my point of view, Sony will not just take this an exception for OtherOS, but will consider it a green card in any future stunt they might pull. (For example blu-ray functionality). And if not Sony, then another company will.
Then again it's just my opinion and I could be wrong. (Not that I usually am )

Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine View Post
And thank you for using "ad hominem" ad nauseum.

Plenty of people in this forum are spewing their rhetoric about how much Geohot is a hero and that everyone has a right to manipulate the OS as much as they please since they purchased a PS3, when all of it is completely wrong.

Zinxe, Stealth, and several others including myself have posted many times in these PS3 threads proving otherwise yet the majority seem to ignore what we say and continue on with their useless misinformed smatterings.

You, along with others, have shown a complete disregard to the millions of consumers that just want to go on PSN and have a good time.
Well I don't frequent these forums much, so I'm sorry if I did not read your posts.

In fact, had you bothered to read my posts carefully, you would have seen that I partly agree with you. What Sony is doing is perfectly legal. What I'm arguing for is that it shouldn't, as are many in this thread (with a few exceptions). Consumers must always have the priority and advantage of rights and not the corporations.

As for me disregarding the millions of consumers that just want to go on PSN and have a good time, these consumers are exactly what I have in mind when I'm arguing.
If Sony wins this case, and although it might not abuse that fact, there are plenty of other companies that will take this as permission to tread further on millions of consumers' rights. (Not necessarly PSN related of course)

Looking at the small picture you are perfectly 100% correct. Sony winning is in our favor. But looking at the big picture IMHO, it is quite the opposite.
Edited by __Pat__ - 2/22/11 at 11:00am
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post #214 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by __Pat__ View Post
I understand that. But from my point of view, Sony will not just take this an exception for OtherOS, but will consider it a green card in any future stunt they might pull. (For example blu-ray functionality)
Then again it's just my opinion and I could be wrong. (Not that I usually am )
They couldn't legally pull blu-ray as it was a heavily advertised feature.
post #215 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
They couldn't legally pull blu-ray as it was a heavily advertised feature.
Hey sorry you replied as I was editing my post. I was just citing an example
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post #216 of 240
He can sod-off as far as I care.

You make a bed of ****
You have to lie in it.
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post #217 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe View Post
I was trying to enforce that Sony was completely within their legal rights to remove the OtherOS and ban from PSN, which is a known fact, not opinion
Would it be a "legal right" for Microsoft to delete all non-MS stuff from your system - even though you agreed to install SP1? Would it be legal for MS to delete Chrome or Firefox because you agreed to install a driver to enable USB3?

I don't have any problem with Sony banning cheaters from PSN - but they better be cheating. Someone running a dual boot system does not constitute a pirate or a cheater - just someone running Linux or something. It seems to me that Sony is trying to blame someone for the lame security that they put into their device. Rather than fixing the actual problem, they just seem to be brushing a bunch of people with the same stroke - and bringing upon themselves the moniker of Evil Empire, and the rath of the DOS attack. I bet PSN will be chuck full of cheaters, once the cheaters use unban to ban all of the legitmate users. All over a feature than only a handful of people use that they decided to unilaterally remove.
post #218 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by __Pat__ View Post
I don't think a lot of people here are debating that Sony doesn't have the right to do so (or else their lawsuit would never hold in court), but rather that these rights shouldn't be there in the first place, ethically if not legally.

It might be true, as you said, that if things get worst then something is bound to change, however things are bad even the way they are right now. The "licensing usage" that these companies sell their products through needs to be changed as it gives them too much freedom as it is.

You think that the removal of OtherOS is unimportant, and thus it's perfectly fine for Sony to remove it. But a day will come when something quite useful will be removed from a product, in the same fashion that OtherOS was removed because it conflicts with a company's interests, and just as OtherOS, it will be perfectly legal to do so.
Which side of the debate will you be on then?

Even though a victory for Sony might not make things worst (I was thinking of worst case scenario), a victory for Geohot will probably turn things for the better and might give us consumers more rights.

(Also Stealth thank you for not going "HERP DERP" and blatantly using ad hominem in your replies, like some people here are doing.)
I agree with you Pat, a victory for Sony is not good but a victory for Geohot would be better. To win against these corporate giants you have to have enough money for legal fees. I guess many have forgotten about Bleem! and Lik-Sang. Connectix actually won but Sony bought the VGS out and discontinued it.

But you are right in saying that one victory for a large corporation would mean that other corporations would get away with treading on consumers. Might I remind you of the RIAA and this:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ses-court-case

Sony removed PS2 compatability and they removed OtherOS. What aren't they going to remove? It's kind of funny though, while Sony has been removing features Microsoft has been adding features.
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post #219 of 240
dang doubles
Edited by mushroomboy - 2/22/11 at 1:28pm
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post #220 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros View Post
...
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanPitts View Post
It's more radical than that. It is like if you do an update, they not only erase your ability to play MP3, they erase all of the MP3 files, then disconnect the machine from the Internet.

It's one thing to enforce rules by giving cheaters the boot off of PSN, it is another thing to have a program go onto a machine and start erasing stuff. In other words, Sony's tactic is nothing short of a trojan horse, out to trash your stuff because they have something against it. It is no different from their root kits - stuff that kept me away from the PS3 in the first place.
Code:
Yeah I added that as an extra clause to make it a more fair comparison.  Basically you 
have purchased said software that was supposed to run on the internet through their 
device.  They said that was fine, you can do that AND OtherOS.  Now they say you can't, 
you have to choose.  Either of those functions can interact in a way as to alter your civil 
liberties.  Basically they manipulate your constitutional rights.  I don't think secondary 
features have the ability to be that powerful, so they would both constitute as primary 
features.  This would then make what sony did illegal, making you choose between two 
primary features of their device.  

THAT is how it is illegal.  But yeah, I'm in agreement with you.

[edit]  I'm actually very good at pushing a case.  =P  I've had to plan out legal adventures 
before, you have to really think outside the box.  You also have to think for EVERYONE.  
What makes a primary feature?  Can they take away a feature that alters your civil 
liberties?  How do features interact with your civil liberties, are their functions 
constitutional?  It's a huge mess and not really as simple as "sony didn't advertise it, it's 
not a primary feature".  That's not what makes a feature primary, so we have to establish 
boundaries for the software.  This is actually going to be a huge case.
That's my response in the other thread. I'm pretty sure you don't think of things in these terms, but this is a good way to get you actually thinking about how the case will probably go down. It's not as easy as "advertised feature", nor is it as simple as them just saying it's a secondary feature. I could release a device that plays .mp3 as a secondary feature. What happens when the economy decides that .mp3 is the primary music format and now that becomes the primary feature and why people buy my device? I'm not saying that this was the case here, but obviously some people bought the PS3 because it had that feature as well as others. That makes it a qualifying factor in deciding whether or not they purchased said device, so then what? You also have to think in terms of how removing or adding a feature alters civil rights. We are HUGE on our civil rights, and I for one don't like them being taken away.
Edited by mushroomboy - 2/22/11 at 9:10pm
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