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Mod Tools for BF3? (petition) - Page 3

post #21 of 34
Signed.
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post #22 of 34
If anyone had read DICE's response to the BC2 requests for mod tools you would know this is impossible/cost prohibitive due to their development pipeline...

They don't have an editor they can just give to the community, it's reliant on internal tech and licensed software they aren't allowed to distribute.
Edited by [\/]Paris - 2/21/11 at 12:30am
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post #23 of 34
I was finally able to track down the post where they explain it:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/b...-modtools.html

A little snippet, their explanation is quite complete.

"The game, editor and pipeline all use commercial middleware. It is developed by Havok and several other companies.

The licensing agreement for the middleware allows us to use that code in specific products, on specific platforms.
If we want to release editor + pipeline, we need to license the middleware specifically for this. How much would that be? Perhaps $1M-$3M. I'm guessing wildly here.

Stripping out that middleware would seriously hamper the functionality especially of the pipeline. We use Havok Physics, for instance. Without Havok Physics, the pipeline wouldn't be able to convert any of the physics meshes. We also use Granny. Without Granny, the pipeline will not be able to convert any of the character animations. Etc.

Re-implementing the necessary functionality of the middleware ourselves ("let's make our own physics engine / let's plug in an open-source physics engine") would take literally man-years. Licensing is cheaper in pure $ cost and faster (it works now instead of by 2012).

The pipeline also uses some code that is under GPL. Given that we do not want to release the full source code for the editor + pipeline, we would need to replace the GPLed code with other implementations.

The GPLed code is less of a problem than the proprietary middleware."
Edited by [\/]Paris - 2/21/11 at 12:32am
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post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by [\/]Paris;12465716 
I was finally able to track down the post where they explain it:

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-bad-company-2-pc/1350772-so-how-about-modtools.html

A little snippet, their explanation is quite complete.

"The game, editor and pipeline all use commercial middleware. It is developed by Havok and several other companies.

The licensing agreement for the middleware allows us to use that code in specific products, on specific platforms.
If we want to release editor + pipeline, we need to license the middleware specifically for this. How much would that be? Perhaps $1M-$3M. I'm guessing wildly here.

Stripping out that middleware would seriously hamper the functionality especially of the pipeline. We use Havok Physics, for instance. Without Havok Physics, the pipeline wouldn't be able to convert any of the physics meshes. We also use Granny. Without Granny, the pipeline will not be able to convert any of the character animations. Etc.

Re-implementing the necessary functionality of the middleware ourselves ("let's make our own physics engine / let's plug in an open-source physics engine") would take literally man-years. Licensing is cheaper in pure $ cost and faster (it works now instead of by 2012).

The pipeline also uses some code that is under GPL. Given that we do not want to release the full source code for the editor + pipeline, we would need to replace the GPLed code with other implementations.

The GPLed code is less of a problem than the proprietary middleware."
Fully aware, but not planning for mod tools when developing the engine (for a series that has been huge with modding) was just poor planning. It should have been built from the ground up with modding as one of its priorities.
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post #25 of 34
Guys i mean seriously, they have given you EVERYTHING you wanted and you go start some stupid petition about ONE thing? They already giving PC special treatment aside from usual junk we get and now this... no wonder everyone says pc gamers are a bunch of winers
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post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Naught View Post
It should have been built from the ground up with modding as one of its priorities.
Do you plan on using these mod tools when release even?

They have already said the engine is to complicated to release unless they dumb it down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by [xPt]FLuX View Post
no wonder everyone says pc gamers are a bunch of winners
Fixed.
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post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Naught View Post
Fully aware, but not planning for mod tools when developing the engine (for a series that has been huge with modding) was just poor planning. It should have been built from the ground up with modding as one of its priorities.
What does DICE have to benefit from mod tools? Where is the corporate incentive? Don't give me the rubbish about increased sales, I would say less than 0.1% of sales come from the direct reason of "battlefield has mod tools".

If you're a BF fan, you'll buy BF3 regardless of what it comes with.
post #28 of 34
Why are you guys so butthurt about this? it's a petition. Sign it or pass.
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post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by [xPt]FLuX View Post
Guys i mean seriously, they have given you EVERYTHING you wanted and you go start some stupid petition about ONE thing? They already giving PC special treatment aside from usual junk we get and now this... no wonder everyone says pc gamers are a bunch of winers
Read the petition, reasoning is provided (such as BF2 began as a Mod essentially). Battlefield series is about modding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by [nK]Sharp View Post
Do you plan on using these mod tools when release even?

They have already said the engine is to complicated to release unless they dumb it down.



Fixed.
I don't, no. I am not a modder. I play and enjoy mods. I have helped a few times with mods, but nothing major. As I have stated previously, mod support should have been a priority since day one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk View Post
What does DICE have to benefit from mod tools? Where is the corporate incentive? Don't give me the rubbish about increased sales, I would say less than 0.1% of sales come from the direct reason of "battlefield has mod tools".

If you're a BF fan, you'll buy BF3 regardless of what it comes with.
No, not much monetary incentive at all, but rather fan loyalty. Kind of like what happened with COD. I was a huge fan of COD until MW2, as were many other pc gamers. Sure, they way they made the series may have increased sales, but I guess if they don't mind pissing off people in the process. Frankly, if I were running a company, it wouldn't be entirely about profit, but also making a product that I am proud of and I know the people who bought our previous titles and built are company would be satisfied with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiru View Post
Why are you guys so butthurt about this? it's a petition. Sign it or pass.
Agreed.
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post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z Naught View Post
Fully aware, but not planning for mod tools when developing the engine (for a series that has been huge with modding) was just poor planning. It should have been built from the ground up with modding as one of its priorities.
I'm a part time modder myself, I can understand, your, and everyone else's frustration over this.

However Frostbite was originally developed for Bad Company which of course was a console only title. It's probable that at the time they weren't even thinking about the PC Mod community in relation to the engine they were developing, sad but true. Now that they have a development pipeline established they're even less likely to change it. :/
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