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[ArsTechnica] "OtherOS" class-action lawsuit: GeoHot, Sony now share same charge - Page 11

post #101 of 172
Thread Starter 
For the people who argue that Sony has the right to do this stuff like this, read their filed statements in response to this charge.
Quote:
SCEA do not warrantee that the PS3 will continue to play Blu-ray discs, play games online through the PSN, play new PS3 authorised software, play old PS3 authorised software or play any software without explicit authorisation from SCEA. Neither does SCEA warrantee that any authorised games or services, subscription or otherwise, will be available to the owner at any time after purchase.

That sounds good to you? You're comfortable with SCEA having that power?

Here's a link for those of you who want to read more about the actual Sony arguments and filings in this case: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

This seriously makes me question the business model of Sony as a company and the way in which they view their responsibility to their costumers.
Edited by bravos89 - 2/22/11 at 2:33pm
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post #102 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by alex98uk;12485783 
I was always under the impression it is legally binding, but can be overridden by courts.

No, the EULA isn't legally binding. That's why so many people have a problem with the anti-hackintosh discussions here. EULA is only a contract between the creator and consumer. If any part of that contract is illegal by the Govt. in which the consumer lives the EULA is void. This applies to any country, as the EULA can't set precedence against the laws of a country.
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post #103 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravos89;12485939 
For the people who argue that Sony has the right to do this stuff like this, read their filed statements in response to this charge.
Quote:
SCEA do not warrantee that the PS3 will continue to play Blu-ray discs, play games online through the PSN, play new PS3 authorised software, play old PS3 authorised software or play any software without explicit authorisation from SCEA. Neither does SCEA warrantee that any authorised games or services, subscription or otherwise, will be available to the owner at any time after purchase.

That sounds good to you? You're comfortable with SCEA having that power?

LOL. where do i sign up?

we will sale you this game console at highway robbery prices, promise it can do all this, but at a later date, if it suits our fancy, we can remove all functionality that we've deemed you don't need or should buy additional hardware or "services" to use...
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post #104 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedEarth;12473504 
But surely there is something in the EULA that gives Sony the right to modify their OS any time they please?

Obviously the EULA doesn't hold as much weight as a written law, but it may be enough for a dismissal. Especially considering the removal of the software feature didn't encroach upon the primary (or even secondary) function of the device, respectively being a gaming and media centre. Nor was the system advertised as a Linux box to begin with.

Who knows, but I think Sony's lawyers are good enough to get them out of this one. I personally don't care about 'OtherOS' but my opinion in this matter is irrelevant.

EULA's always have stuff in it, alot of it isn't strictly legal. For example they may say they have the right to terminate/brick your console for whatever reason, but under consumer rights they do not.

It's tricky business, really, lots of ins and outs and loopholes.

Geohot will take this, if you ask me.
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post #105 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravos89;12485939 
For the people who argue that Sony has the right to do this stuff like this, read their filed statements in response to this charge.



That sounds good to you? You're comfortable with SCEA having that power?

Here's a link for those of you who want to read more about the actual Sony arguments and filings in this case: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

This seriously makes me question the business model of Sony as a company and the way in which they view their responsibility to their costumers.

Sounds fine. They have the right, I expect them to have that right, and I agree with it. When it gets to the point where they remove something that I want, then I will move on to a new product and find a new company to purchase from. Most companies work like that, it isn't just Sony. They all have clauses like that, because they need to be prepared for something unexpected in the future. When Sony release the PS3, they didn't expect the people they were trying to satisfy to exploit it and inevitable cost them resources while hurting the experience of the mass users. You can only patch something so many times before you realize, they won't get the message. Just remove it, get it over with. If you exploit something, you don't deserve to have it. That is opinionated of course, and beside the point. The point is, if you question Sony's business model, you need to question every other business model. They are all the same.
And, once again (sign), you did not pay for the firmware. It is not yours, they can change it. You paid for the hardware, and the last time I checked... Sony doesn't bust down your door and start taking components out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XNine;12483478 
Okay, seriously, this has been killing me for weeks. Is that Jim Carry dressed as Lady Gaga?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth Pyros;12483624 
LOL. I've thought the same thing so many times when I see it.

Edit: Yes, it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYYo3T6nCw8

smile.gif
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post #106 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinxe;12487067 
Sounds fine. They have the right, I expect them to have that right, and I agree with it. When it gets to the point where they remove something that I want, then I will move on to a new product and find a new company to purchase from. Most companies work like that, it isn't just Sony. They all have clauses like that, because they need to be prepared for something unexpected in the future. When Sony release the PS3, they didn't expect the people they were trying to satisfy to exploit it and inevitable cost them resources while hurting the experience of the mass users. You can only patch something so many times before you realize, they won't get the message. Just remove it, get it over with. If you exploit something, you don't deserve to have it. That is opinionated of course, and beside the point. The point is, if you question Sony's business model, you need to question every other business model. They are all the same.
And, once again (sign), you did not pay for the firmware. It is not yours, they can change it. You paid for the hardware, and the last time I checked... Sony doesn't bust down your door and start taking components out of it.







smile.gif

umm...so you would seriously let them pick apart what features the item you purchased had...till it had nothing left and would simply go buy from another company? wow, talk about a "throw-away" society we live in.. Sooner or later companys like sony will not allow certain blu-rays to be played that are not from sony pictures, then you will have companies like microsoft making u pay to play a xbox 360 game not made by microsoft, or maybe ford will void your warranty for having your servicing done at other companies... oops... Car Manufactures tried that AND FAILED... Letting a big business like this remove features that you paid for is a way to fully let big business run this country and make any laws they want to protect themself.
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post #107 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Destroyer;12487155 
umm...so you would seriously let them pick apart what features the item you purchased had...till it had nothing left and would simply go buy from another company? wow, talk about a "throw-away" society we live in.. Sooner or later companys like sony will not allow certain blu-rays to be played that are not from sony pictures, then you will have companies like microsoft making u pay to play a xbox 360 game not made by microsoft, or maybe ford will void your warranty for having your servicing done at other companies... oops... Car Manufactures tried that AND FAILED... Letting a big business like this remove features that you paid for is a way to fully let big business run this country and make any laws they want to protect themself.

Thats the price you pay for living in a free market. You enter an agreement with them when you buy a PS3, and re-enter when the terms change for whatever reason. They are legally allowed to do this because they informed you of such changes, by forcing you to read / skip said changes. There are laws that do supersede these binding agreements, however, they are usually extreme cases or cases that involve another illegal activity being called into question. You can't legally be bound to kill your neighbor in order to use a PS3 for example.

Your strange blu-ray analogy is actually called anti-trust, or anti-competitive business practices, which is illegal.

Microsoft makes you pay (or tries to make consumers pay for video games by fighting piracy) for ALL video games. Thats called a transaction, and since we are selling consoles and video games, its quite legal.

I am just quoting Blue above, but it sounds like the majority want to see Sony fail just because they are either big, a corporation, or Sony.

You don't need to hate business unnecessary, there are plenty of douche-bags out there that not only taunt you to hate them, legally try and get away with real crimes.
AIG, ENRON, Halyburton, AMWAY, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bravos89;12485939 
For the people who argue that Sony has the right to do this stuff like this, read their filed statements in response to this charge.



That sounds good to you? You're comfortable with SCEA having that power?

Here's a link for those of you who want to read more about the actual Sony arguments and filings in this case: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110218181557455

This seriously makes me question the business model of Sony as a company and the way in which they view their responsibility to their costumers.

I have read 4 licensing agreements today alone, including Sony's, and they all essentially say the same thing.

STEAM, Blizzard / WoW, and caveats of Windows End-User License Agreement.

When I first heard about computer/electronic companies placing these very explicit and somewhat scary terms of service, I remember it being explained to me that if they did not, they could be sued the minute they stop any advertised services. If they went bankrupt, or dissolved as a company, when they stopped service, it didn't matter, they still could be sued. No business lasts forever, and no matter how awesome you are, someone will try and either steal from you or sue you - hence the agreements you enter in with them.
Edited by RagingCain - 2/22/11 at 4:45pm
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post #108 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by RagingCain;12487316 
Thats the price you pay for living in a free market. You enter an agreement with them when you buy a PS3, and re-enter when the terms change for whatever reason. That are legally allowed to do this because they informed you of such changes, and then force you to read / skip said changes. There are laws that do supersede these binding agreements, however, they are usually extreme cases or cases that involve another illegal activity being called into question. You can't legally be bound to kill your neighbor in order to use a PS3 for example.

Your strange blu-ray analogy is actually called anti-trust, or anti-competitive business practices, which is illegal.

Microsoft makes you pay (or tries to make consumers pay for video games by fighting piracy) for ALL video games. Thats called a transaction, and since we are selling consoles and video games, its quite legal.

I am just quoting Blue, but it sounds like the majority want to see Sony fail just because they are either big, a corporation, or Sony.

You don't need to hate business unnecessary, there are plenty of douche-bags out there that not only taunt you to hate them, legally try and get away with real crimes.
AIG, ENRON, Halyburton, AMWAY, etc.

I want to see sony fail cause it puts some rights back into our hands. What i meant with the MS thing is, you buy a game not made by microsoft(ie madden) and ontop of the $60, they charge you $1 per time you play compared to Gears of war, that costs $60 and nothing each time you play. Its not "big business" i hate, its Big business that are shady companies, much like sony is acting right now. there are consumer laws that protect us from sony removing Blu-ray playback, and such. Sony is pushing the envelope to see how far they can push it, and this time they got pushed back. On the grounds alone(before sonys deep pockets effect any judges)the class action lawsuit should win. The removal of OtherOS violates the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act point blank. there is no denying this at all. We paid for a feature that was later removed, either fix it and re-allow OtherOS, or refund people the money.
Quote:
The law makes it unlawful to make unauthorized changes to a computer system

Sonys defense is it was an optional update. Just cause sony claims it was an optional update, dosnt mean its so. A update required to play certain(purchased) games, is not optional.
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post #109 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Destroyer;12487155 
umm...so you would seriously let them pick apart what features the item you purchased had...till it had nothing left and would simply go buy from another company? wow, talk about a "throw-away" society we live in.. Sooner or later companys like sony will not allow certain blu-rays to be played that are not from sony pictures, then you will have companies like microsoft making u pay to play a xbox 360 game not made by microsoft, or maybe ford will void your warranty for having your servicing done at other companies... oops... Car Manufactures tried that AND FAILED... Letting a big business like this remove features that you paid for is a way to fully let big business run this country and make any laws they want to protect themself.


Not until there was nothing left. Just until something was removed that I used. Once that happened, I'd drop support of them and move on to another company that can provide the satisfaction. That is how competition works. Instead, people think they have the right for all companies to meet their every need, and if they don't then they think they have grounds to sue. It is ridiculous.
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Video Game News › [ArsTechnica] "OtherOS" class-action lawsuit: GeoHot, Sony now share same charge