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*******High Flow******* myth or not? - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Wow great oppinions and facts keep them coming
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post #12 of 21
I suppose this is one of the watercooling cultural differences between Germany and the US. Americans generally prefer higher flow rate while Germans prefer lower. I notice the same goes for tubing size (Americans tend to get ½ to 7/16'' ID while Europeans favour 7/16 to 3/8'' ID more?).

Here is a German testing ''The Dependency of Cooling Performance on the Flow'':
Original German link:http://www.dexgo.com/index.php?site=...dware&seite=18
Comments:
a. the entire range of tested flow rate is shifted left, ie started with 30 l/h = 0.13 GPM and ended with 210 l/h = 0.92 GPM while Skinnee (representing the American culture?), started with 0.4 GPM and ended with 4 GPM

English link at XS: http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...d.php?t=203446
Comments:
a. read HESmelaugh's post #6 (HESmelaugh made the review above)
b. Skinnee noted the ending point as well and he did recognize the test stopping at 210l/h (or 0.924 GPM) is appropriate for the European market, indicating there is such a cultural difference. (post #28)
post #13 of 21
Id like to add to this argument with real experience..

I have 2 x D5's in series on a very long restrictive loop with 3 x 360 BlackIce Extreme rads and if i disable 1 x D5 i reduce water temp by 4-5c. With 1 x D5 running my flow meter is barely turning yet I get better heat dissapation than at a higher flow rate with both D5s.

Res>D5>ApogeeXTCPU>(Parallel GPUs)EK5970>EK5870>EK5870>EK UD9 mosfet MB>Parallel RAM x3>EK UD9 chipset MB>Series 3xGTX360>back to res

Im yet to determine if this is because of less heat dump or because the water spends more time in the Rads' hence it cools down closer to ambient.

In my new build i will be testing this theory, and most likely reducing the D5's to speed 2-3 in series to reduce heat dump and slow the flow through the radiators.

I've read all skineelabs stuff before I made a lot of my decisions and found it an invaluable resource. Thanks for your work Martin!!!
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post #14 of 21
Q = M * C * (T_hot -T_cold)

Q being thermal power, ie: heat we are transferring, we want this as high as possible. Q can be measured on your water block, as well as your radiator.

M being mass flow rate, ie: your water flow, dependant mostly on pumps, but also headloss associated with size and shape of pipe/tube

C being specific heat capacity of water, you can't really change this too much, even with additives

T_hot being temperature of water leaving water block (or entering radiator)

T_cold being temperature of water entering water block (or leaving radiator)

Increasing flow will most definitely increase heat transfer and lower your processor temps, provided your radiator is cooler than your water block

Edited by damric - 2/23/11 at 1:04am
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post #15 of 21
Nice post Damric, but note that the same math comes out with similar answers at lower flow rates if you take into account that the coolant will spend more time in both the blocks, and rads. This will increase the coolant temps more in the block, but will result in a greater delta temperature between the rad inflow and outflow temps. Radiators are much more efficient the greater the difference between coolant temp and ambient.

Of course, making your rad more efficient means keeping the coolant hotter, which means higher temps. Getting the most from your loop is a real balancing act between flow, block design, radiator size and airflow.

Don't you just love thermodynamics?
Edited by allikat - 2/23/11 at 1:28am
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post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatboy69 View Post
Id like to add to this argument with real experience..

I have 2 x D5's in series on a very long restrictive loop with 3 x 360 BlackIce Extreme rads and if i disable 1 x D5 i reduce water temp by 4-5c. With 1 x D5 running my flow meter is barely turning yet I get better heat dissapation than at a higher flow rate with both D5s.

Res>D5>ApogeeXTCPU>(Parallel GPUs)EK5970>EK5870>EK5870>EK UD9 mosfet MB>Parallel RAM x3>EK UD9 chipset MB>Series 3xGTX360>back to res

Im yet to determine if this is because of less heat dump or because the water spends more time in the Rads' hence it cools down closer to ambient.

In my new build i will be testing this theory, and most likely reducing the D5's to speed 2-3 in series to reduce heat dump and slow the flow through the radiators.

I've read all skineelabs stuff before I made a lot of my decisions and found it an invaluable resource. Thanks for your work Martin!!!
That is because the Water spends more time in the blocks and therefore there is more heat transfer...that logically results in better heat transfer of the block but also heats up the water pretty bad,which is of a very big disadvantage when using a full loop with lots of blocks in them.

In the end not the water tempreture matters as instead the CPU and GPU tempretures.
And those can only be achieved with cool water ..so if the flow rate is high and the water spends less time absorbing heat from the block the block has a better time cooling the cpu than absorbing heat from it which ultimately leads to better CPU temps.

Out of that reason and theory I got the EK Supreme HF Full Nickel.
Because at the end of the day flow rate does matter ..at least to a certain extent.
Edited by Kung Pow - 2/23/11 at 1:30am
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post #17 of 21
Just one thing I'd like to point out - the water spends the same amount of time in the radiator or blocks with any flow rate. For example, if you increased your flow from 1 GPM to 2 GPM the water would spend exactly 1/2 of the time in the radiator per loop, but it would pass through the radiator twice making the overall amount of time to be the same.

While I agree that above a certain point more flow is useless, I think that limit is somewhere around 180l/hr and not the 60 that many Germans claim it to be.
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post #18 of 21
Yeah, the spent time misconception comes up a lot. I can only wish we would drop 10c in one radiator pass

It actually can take upwards of 30 minutes to stabilize a system depending on the delta and volume of water. Time spent is the same once you account for cycles.
    
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post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Ok then please point out to me why a flow rate up to 180 l/h matters for temps.
What will be the difference between my EK Supreme HF and the Kryos?
Both reach the 180 l/h.
And if the flowrate above 180 l/h won´t matter anyway there was no point for me in switching them.

Also the water getting hotter is no arguement either because the rad negates that anyways.
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post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Pow View Post
Ok then please point out to me why a flow rate up to 180 l/h matters for temps.
What will be the difference between my EK Supreme HF and the Kryos?
Both reach the 180 l/h.
And if the flowrate above 180 l/h won´t matter anyway there was no point for me in switching them.

Also the water getting hotter is no arguement either because the rad negates that anyways.
It's the other blocks in the loop. Sure, if you have a CPU only loop the difference between the two blocks is negligible. Once you start adding more blocks to reduce the flow rate, the difference is more noticeable.

IE.

Kyros XT - 1.25 GPM
Supreme HF - 1.6 GPM

Kyros XT + GPU block - 1.1 GPM
Supreme HF + GPU block - 1.5 GPM

Kyros XT + GPU + Mobo - 0.7 GPM (motherboard blocks are restrictive)
Supreme HF + GPU + Mobo - 1.1 GPM
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