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1000core Processor isnt as impressive as you think - Page 5

post #41 of 67
Intel has a prototype 40 core with HT.
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post #42 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixson01974 View Post
Intel has a prototype 40 core with HT.
its more gpu like than cpu.
knights ferry -i suppose
    
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post #43 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGuru View Post
Your an idiot.

To save money you could cut down on the cost of so many servers.

I think you don't WANT to understand the concept behind this. Your mind is made up, toll along now.
I understand. I am being a bit stubborn
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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
You dont need to know how hard it is to have expectations. Try saying that to your boss. But that gets back to my point. If its hard enough o make a program work with 2 cores try 1000..
No, you have no understanding what you are talking about so do not pretend you do. Really.

If my boss came to me and said "Make this code multi-threaded".... I would say I would have to do performance benefit analysis first and then provide my recommendations. Once done, he would then make the decision to dedicate a few months of development and take the risk of unforeseen issues.

In fact, my project at work for the next few months will be to set up a Linux server and see if I can rewrite financial models to gain performance. This is what I get paid to do. I'm not a dummy at this.

...and your statement "If its hard enough o make a program work with 2 cores try 1000." proves how little you know about multi-threading. In a highly parallel-able process, making a program work on 1000 cores can be the same exact work needed to make it run on 2 cores. You have to deal with same concurrency issues. Once you have that under control, the code should be able to scale from 2 to 100,000 cores relatively easily.... IF all the cores are on one logical machine. Once you have multiple machines, architectures, OSes, and/or instruction sets, complexity goes through the roof.




Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
I can imagine that its probably a tight rope to walk. I dont have the figures but i can imagine that a chip cost a lot more then 200K to develop. And the target market is really really small.
How do you think IBM or SUN stay in business designing non-x86 servers?

My division of ~300 people spends a few million a year on servers.

Server sales is a multi-billion dollar business (2009 was a down year too). Companies spend around $50-70B a year on servers. That's not a small market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
I understand. I am being a bit stubborn
You really don't know much about chip development or design as indicated by your statements. What is your computing background? Do you have a degree in Computer Engineer? Do you work for a hardware design firm? Do you work on servers?

If you know nothing about computers outside consumer parts, then why are making such statements as in the OP? News flash.... Most computer developments are outside the realm of consumer parts.

Honestly, you are not being stubborn but ignorant. You make statements as fact based on your limited knowledge.
Edited by DuckieHo - 2/25/11 at 7:43pm
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post #45 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
If my boss came to me and said "Make this code multi-threaded".... I would say I would have to do performance benefit analysis first and then provide my recommendations. Once done, he would then make the decision to dedicate a few months of development and take the risk of unforeseen issues.
Good point..

Quote:
...and your statement "If its hard enough o make a program work with 2 cores try 1000." proves how little you know about multi-threading. In a highly parallel-able process, making a program work on 1000 cores can be the same exact work needed to make it run on 2 cores. You have to deal with same concurrency issues. Once you have that under control, the code should be able to scale from 2 to 100,000 cores relatively easily.... IF all the cores are on one logical machine. Once you have multiple machines, architectures, OSes, and/or instruction sets, complexity goes through the roof.
I also understand this. But that goes back on how "parallel-able" the program is. And i made that comment after you asked if you have any idea how hard multi-threading is. I assumed you were talking about a situation not like this. In which case i can imagine that a 1k core CPU might not be beneficial for your boss

Quote:
How do you think IBM or SUN stay in business designing non-x86 servers?

My division of ~300 people spends a few million a year on servers.

Server sales is a multi-billion dollar business (2009 was a down year too). Companies spend around $50-70B a year on servers. That's not a small market.


You really don't know much about chip development or design as indicated by your statements. What is your computing background? Do you have a degree in Computer Engineer? Do you work for a hardware design firm? Do you work on servers?
Im actually studying computer science ATM. Im working on my certifications and i work mostly freelance for small business. I do manage and maintain windows based servers. This isnt my claim to (knowledge?) and im not saying im a hotshot either.

What i do know is that AMD sells more laptop chips then they sell desktop and Server chips. I can imagine Intel (The largest Semiconductor chip maker) has a similar pattern.


And considering that IBM was #26 in semiconductor sales back in 09 i didn't think that there chips (Which i assume include chips on motherboards and ETC) weren't exactly flying off the shelves

In my logic intel is taking a already small market [Servers](Or so i thought) and splitting it to make a even smaller one. By selling a Chip that only works well with parrelle processes rather then well over all

Do you see why i (thought / think) it (was / is) a bad idea?

Any ways at what point do $200k machines pay them selfs off in efficiency?



Quote:
If you know nothing about computers outside consumer parts, then why are making such statements as in the OP? News flash.... Most computer developments are outside the realm of consumer parts.

Honestly, you are not being stubborn but ignorant. You make statements as fact based on your limited knowledge.
Yea but thats where they usually end up. In a much smaller scale of coarse.
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post #46 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
I also understand this. But that goes back on how "parallel-able" the program is. And i made that comment after you asked if you have any idea how hard multi-threading is. I assumed you were talking about a situation not like this. In which case i can imagine that a 1k core CPU might not be beneficial for your boss
Financial models are extremely parallel-able. If we could get a drop-in 100-core CPU, we would spend $100-500K on it in a heartbeat. We are paying people that much per year. If we can get their work output to multiple by 2-3 fold with faster systems, then it is entirely worth it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
What i do know is that AMD sells more laptop chips then they sell desktop and Server chips. I can imagine Intel (The largest Semiconductor chip maker) has a similar pattern.
You are forget that volume alone does not equal profitability. You need to take margins into account.

AMD may sell more laptop chips but they make much much per chip when compared to a server.

Check the price disparity between a server chip and desktop chip. They are cut from the same exact silicon so manufacturer costs are the same.



Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
And considering that IBM was #26 in semiconductor sales back in 09 i didn't think that there chips (Which i assume include chips on motherboards and ETC) weren't exactly flying off the shelves
Your chart is useless in comparing CPU companies. There are DRAM-only, networking-only, component-only, ect companies in that list. In addition, IBM is most definitely not a semiconductor-only company. That chart mixes too many variables. i.e. Samsung sells phones, TVs, NAND, RAM, etc while IBM sells enterprise hardware.

POWER7 is a massive improvement from POWER6. Everyone running a POWER6 wants to upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
In my logic intel is taking a already small market [Servers](Or so i thought) and splitting it to make a even smaller one. By selling a Chip that only works well with parrelle processes rather then well over all

Do you see why i (thought / think) it (was / is) a bad idea?
Servers is a massive market... and a growing market. There is more profit with servers because people want more and more performance.

In the desktop space, do people demand more performance? The truth is no. "Good enough" computer is here. For 99% of the market, a Core 2 Quad is really good enough. Should Intel stop R&D then?


Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
Any ways at what point do $200k machines pay them selfs off in efficiency?
It is not only about efficiency.

If I can write multi-thread code that will run on one machine easily, it is often worth paying extra for it than trying to manage code that runs across 10 machines.

If you are paying a team millions of dollars a year, than what is $200K to get them to work better?




Quote:
Originally Posted by StuffStuff1 View Post
Yea but thats where they usually end up. In a much smaller scale of coarse.
What does that mean "much smaller scale"? Most often... It is or is not.
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post #47 of 67
ive never heard of this new "1000 core" cpu, anyone got a legit link to it?
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post #48 of 67
This is an amazingly educational thread for me, which probably just exposes how much I don't know.
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post #49 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Super Fragile? What does this even mean? Do you drop your CPUs regularly?
lol you might if you are clumsy and you a have a laptop
    
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post #50 of 67
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckieHo View Post
Financial models are extremely parallel-able. If we could get a drop-in 100-core CPU, we would spend $100-500K on it in a heartbeat. We are paying people that much per year. If we can get their work output to multiple by 2-3 fold with faster systems, then it is entirely worth it.

You are forget that volume alone does not equal profitability. You need to take margins into account.
I did take that into account. What i wanted to point out is that the price on a already expensive chip would have to increase even more to be profitable. Which for buyers isnt a plus. Apparently business just cant wait to dish out the cash for these things.


Quote:
It is not only about efficiency.

If I can write multi-thread code that will run on one machine easily, it is often worth paying extra for it than trying to manage code that runs across 10 machines.
I think you just defined efficiency..




Quote:
What does that mean "much smaller scale"? Most often... It is or is not.

We are now getting chips with 2 threads per core with six cores..

Power 7 is getting eight cores with (32?) threads.
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