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Noctua NH-D14 Horrible Performance Beaten By Cogage True Spirit Need Help 56K Warning

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
First a little background. I've lapped my core i7 930 and my original Cogage True Spirit heatsink. I was using push/pull Akasa Vipers. Honestly, I saw very little to no difference with the push/pull and the lapping. I didn't keep quite enough detailed records, but temps were almost exactly same or worse than pre-lap and push/pull. Based upon a lot of the research I did here in addition to reading a lot of reviews, I decided to upgrade to the Noctua NH-D14. Before installing it, I removed my Cogage Tru Spirit with push/pull Akasa Viper fans. See below for the pics of the AS-5. It doesn't look so great to me...kind of one sided.




However, the Cogage with push/pull Akasa Vipers produced this 3.8 GHz IBT run of 10 on max stress with 8 threads at vcore 1.20625. Ambient temperature was right at 22.0 C. Notice the max core was 68 C according to Realtemp.



Last night I got the NH-D14 installed and had the fans on full. I used AS-5 and was unimpressed with the results immediately. I had downclocked back to auto 2.8 GHz (2.93 turbo) and had the vcore around 1.25 according to CPU-Z (prob 1.275 in BIOS). Temps quickly hit 70C with Prime/LinX. So I unmounted and here's a couple of shots.




I had pre-tinted the heatsink and cpu with AS-5 according to the instructions on the website. Based on the pictures above, I was thinking that either I didn't use enough AS-5 or that the NH-D14 just doesn't apply ample pressure to spread out the paste. So, I unmounted again and tried the NH-1 paste since it's good and supposedly more runny than AS-5. I figured that would help it spread better on the lapped CPU.

When I booted after the remount, my idle temps were awesome. The lowest core was 28 C while the processor was downclocked. Now, idle temps are much higher. I fired up IBT to test. See the screenshot below. Everything was the same as the run I showed above with the Cogage True Spirit except I've since bumped vcore one notch to 1.21250 as 1.20625 had some long term stability problems with Prime 95 at 3.8 GHz. Notice the max core was 70 C. Ambient temps were almost identical ranging from 21.3 C to 22.0 C.



Therefore, I ask the question: How in the world did my Cogage True Spirit outperform the NH-D14 by 2 C? I know I was running higher CFM fans in the Vipers (max 83 CFM), but come on! I guess I'll remount tomorrow and see if I botched up the job again. I'll post the results. However, I really don't see how any re-seat is going to gain me enough to make this purchase worth it. I want max temps at 65 C or lower at 3.8 GHz with vcore of 1.21250. That means a reseat needs to earn me 5 C. Is that too much to ask?

On the positive side, the NH-D14 is silent compared to my 3 Scythe GT AP-15s. I can't hear it over them at all.

Your comments and insights are appreciated.
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post #2 of 23
Did you lap your Cogage? Its possible the Noctua didn't seat correctly (that kind of stuff happens a lot).
post #3 of 23
You know that AS5 requires quit a bit of cure time before it reaches it's full potential right?
post #4 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by answ3r View Post
Did you lap your Cogage? Its possible the Noctua didn't seat correctly (that kind of stuff happens a lot).
Yeah, the Cogage is lapped, but it's still somewhat convex. The cpu is very slightly convex as well. I hope the third seating of the Noctua is the charm.
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post #5 of 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Copenhagen269 View Post
You know that AS5 requires quit a bit of cure time before it reaches it's full potential right?
Yeah, I know. It was about 75 percent cured when I got the Cogage temps that I posted. I'm running NH-1 currently on the Noctua which supposedly requires no cure time. I think AS-5 curing is a little over-rated. I maybe saw 1-2 C difference.
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post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by breenemeister View Post
Yeah, I know. It was about 75 percent cured when I got the Cogage temps that I posted. I'm running NH-1 currently on the Noctua which supposedly requires no cure time. I think AS-5 curing is a little over-rated. I maybe saw 1-2 C difference.
No, it was not. AS5 takes around 200 hot-cold cycles to be fully cured.

Correction, 200 HOURS

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appm..._line_v1.1.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by AS5 instructions
Arctic Silver 5:
Break-in period: 200 hours (Break-in period will occur during normal use.)
Temps will drop several degrees over the break-in period measured with a thermal
diode in the hottest part of the CPU core.
Try some MX2, MX3, OCZ Freeze.

Did you lap the Noctua? What about putting the GTs on it? If you're going to compare, at least compare apples to apples.
Edited by SmasherBasher - 2/22/11 at 8:53pm
post #7 of 23
So, let me get this straight. You lapped your cpu and old Cogage True Spirit at the same time to use together, which works. Now you want to use a lapped cpu with an unlapped NH-D14 that was micro-contoured to the shape of stock, non-lapped cpus. Amiright?

If so it's not the heatsinks fault. You can't lap one without the other. Also unless that's unflattering light it doesn't look like you did a great job lapping the cpu to begin with. Could just be me though.

Also NT-H1 is better than AS5 and doesn't have a curing time.
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post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmasherBasher View Post
No, it was not. AS5 takes around 200 hot-cold cycles to be fully cured.

Correction, 200 HOURS

http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appm..._line_v1.1.pdf



Try some MX2, MX3, OCZ Freeze.

Did you lap the Noctua? What about putting the GTs on it? If you're going to compare, at least compare apples to apples.
I think there's a misunderstanding here. When I tested the Cogage Tru Spirit as shown above, it had been installed for a quite a while, probably 150 hours worth or more with AS-5. I know I only had the AS-5 on the NH-D14 for an hour or so and it was totally uncured. I switched to the NH-1 immediately. The picture of the NH-D14 with AS-5 on it was just to show I did a bad job mounting it. The screenshot of IBT was done with NH-1. Good point about the fans though. I mentioned that I realize the stock noctua fans are nowhere near the output of the Vipers I had installed, but based upon the awesome results everyone seems to get with the stock NH-D14, I was expecting a little more.

The main question I have is: Are my expectations of 65 C max at 3.8GHz, vcore 1.21250 at 22 C ambient out of line with the NH-D14?
Edited by breenemeister - 2/22/11 at 9:05pm
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post #9 of 23
I'd suggest trying another compound.. maybe something less thick?
EDIT: nvm you already did that lol. btw the NT-H1 is nice stuff.

Also, please post a pic of a razor blade next to your Noctua?
Maybe you got one thats not flat at all

You might have to lap the D14 to get maximum performance with your lapped cpu.

Good luck!
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post #10 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by breenemeister View Post
I think there's a misunderstanding here. When I tested the Cogage Tru Spirit as shown above, it had been installed for a quite a while, probably 150 hours worth or more with AS-5. I know I only had the AS-5 on the NH-D14 for an hour or so and it was totally uncured. I switched to the NH-1 immediately. The picture of the NH-D14 with AS-5 on it was just to show I did a bad job mounting it. The screenshot of IBT was done with NH-1. Good point about the fans though. I mentioned that I realize the stock noctua fans are nowhere near the output of the Vipers I had installed, but based upon the awesome results everyone seems to get with the stock NH-D14, I was expecting a little more.

The main question I have is: Are my expectations of 65 C max at 3.8GHz, vcore 1.21250 at 22 C ambient out of line with the NH-D14?
You're talking about a delta temperature of 43*C. My i7-950 @ 4GHz and 1.28v loads around 48*C delta. Temps in my basement are ~17*C.

So figuring your wish and my results I would say it is possible with 1.212v to get 65*C loads once you get this whole lapping/ mounting situation under control.
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